Johnson vs Langford 1909

[mrbig1]

the fight was on TV in Europe. They were watching the fight at 7 o'clock in the morning. Talk to someone in their 70's and maybe you will understand. This was far and away the biggest fight of my lifetime. When Frazier fought Mathis for the title. He was paid 80,000 dollars. When he fought Ali, he got paid more than 15 times that amount! Frank Robinson was among the highest paid baseball players at 115,000 dollars. Ali vs Frazier was not global. Dude, do your homework and get back to me. not trying to be funny but really just look it up.

[mrbig1]

in the documentary one nation divisible. they said that 300 million people saw the fight live around the world.

[kara]

Like Ali said some love me and some hate me, but they all buy a ticket. Langford vs Jeffries wouldn't have drawn flies. My Grandfather told me him and his friends when to the telegraph office to hear a round by round updates. he said JJ vs Jeffries was bigger than Ali vs Frazier which was in my lifetime.

Solid points.

[QueensburyRules]

the fight was on TV in Europe. They were watching the fight at 7 o'clock in the morning. Talk to someone in their 70's and maybe you will understand. This was far and away the biggest fight of my lifetime. When Frazier fought Mathis for the title. He was paid 80,000 dollars. When he fought Ali, he got paid more than 15 times that amount! Frank Robinson was among the highest paid baseball players at 115,000 dollars. Ali vs Frazier was not global. Dude, do your homework and get back to me. not trying to be funny but really just look it up.

- - I provided numbers. YOU could look it up!

Most 70 yr old kids then was 18 not even graduated from high school yet, and worse, most kids didn't have access to closed circuit much less the means to afford the fight.

None of that has squat to do with what Ali and Joe made for the fight.

[mrbig1]

some of my classmates couldn't see the fight not because they couldn't afford it. the fight sold-out all-over D.C. and Baltimore.
So, JJ vs Jeffries
Louis vs Max
Ali vs Frasier
Was without a doubt the biggest fights of the 20th century. It's a wake and bake morning. I do my best writing when I'm tore up.

[Ivich]

People not liking Jack is making my point. Yes, everybody hated Johnson which means they will buy a ticket to see him get his ass kicked. Back in the 1910's a black man driving a new car and showing off his white wife made many white people to lose their mind. Tex Rickard had $$ in his eyes when saw Jack.

Langford's biggest purse was for the Iron Hague fight in London .$10,000
Sam made peanuts compared to Johnson.Johnson's take for the Jeffries fight alone was more than Langford's total purses! Jeannette's wife was white.

NB Jeffries had his last fight as champion in1904 Langford was then a welterweight!
Leaving aside the well known fact that Jeffries many,many times stated publicly that he would never take a chance on defending his title against a black man, welter weight Langford was never on champion Jeffries radar. That quote is actually attributed to Sam Woodman, Langford's manager.

[mrbig1]

Langford's biggest purse was for the Iron Hague fight in London was his biggest purse.
Sam made peanuts compared to Johnson.Johnson's take for the Jeffries fight alone was more than Langford's total purses! Jeannette's wife was white.

NB Jeffries had his last fight as champion in1904 Langford was then a welterweight!
Leaving aside the well known fact that Jeffries many,many times stated publicly that he would never take a chance on defending his title against a black man, welter weight Langford was never on champion Jeffries radar.

so true my friend. Plus, Langford stated he would fight any HW but Jeffries. My grandfather said that Jeffries in his prime was the greatest HW of all time. We would go round and round over that one.

[Willie Pep 229]

so true my friend. Plus, Langford stated he would fight any HW but Jeffries. My grandfather said that Jeffries in his prime was the greatest HW of all time. We would go round and round over that one.

Was Langford just being a good 'colored boy' by saying that just not to squeeze himself out of paydays by pissing off promoters, e.g Billy Delaney, Honest Bill Bradey, or Jack Curley ETC.

Langford's record at the end of 1904. (22-2-13)

In that time he had beaten Gans (LW) on pts and had drawn with Joe Walcott (142 lbs.) and Chappy Blackburn (LW). No one else of note.

IMO I doubt Sam Langford was on anyone's HW radar in 1904, and no one would have been listening if he had had an opinion on Jeffries. He hadn't yet proven he could win even a LW or WW title at that point.

I would like to know when Langford was quoted. It, in 1904, seems an odd duck of a quote to be recorded (noticed). But maybe.

Maybe he said it a few years later when he was somebody. Still for the same reason, not to be disruptive by trying to break the color line (for the HW Championship. HW Championship is where the line truly existed.)

[Dr. Z]

I found this information and wanted to see what else can be added here. I know as champion Johnson’s going rate to defend his title was $30,000. Several proposed bouts vs Langford fell through due to the inability of promoters to obtain financing. One other fell through when Johnson fled to Europe. Was the following one of the instances when Johnson did not obtain his $30,000 purse (although he agreed to less as the negotiations occurred prior to his becoming champion) and because of this would not agree to the bout? As follows:

The financial reasons Johnson may have stated are also incorrect because, every time he made a demand of money to defend against Langford either a promoter like Hugh McIntosh or, when it came to side bets, Langford (and backers) himself stepped forward with the money.

That's a long story with many, many different examples, so starting from the beginning when Johnson started ducking him, let's look at their initial agreement to face each other in a rematch scheduled for May 24th, 1909 (as stated earlier in the thread, Johnson agreed to the match in return for loan by the NSC that was reported to be $6,000), and here's an actual written statement from Johnson to the National Sporting Club in London that was signed on Sept 19th, 1908, and printed in a number of different sources back then;

"To the committee of the National Sporting Club.
Gentlemen: I undertake and agree to carry out my contest with Sam Langford on the 22d of February, 1909, on the same terms and conditions as already arranged with Langford, viz. 1,000 pound purse and one-third of the interest in any bioscopic pictures that may be taken. At the same time allow me to tender my thanks to you for the courtesy you have extended to myself and manager, Mr. Sam Fitzpatrick, while we have been in this country. I am, gentlemen, yours faithfully.
Jack Johnson"

Johnson asked for and was granted an extension on that agreement by the NSC, and then a few months later;

"JOHNSON ACCEPTS OFFER

Agrees to Fight Sam Langford Before London Club on Derby Day

London, Feb. 5--Jack Johnson, the heavyweight champion, tonight notified the National Sporting Club that he has accepted their offer of a $6,000 purse for a match of twenty rounds with Sam Langford. The fight will take place during Derby week and the purse will be divided, $4,000 to the winner and $2,000 to the loser. Each man is to recieve $750 to cover travelling and training expenses." - Various sources printed between Feb 6th and Feb 8th, with this one taken from the Feb 8th, 1909, Salt Lake Herald

From that point on their were NUMEROUS newspaper sources from back then stating that Johnson and Langford were going to meet in London on May 24th, including more quotes from Johnson himself when he wrote a letter to a sportswriter by a W.H. Moseley as printed in sources dated Feb 22nd, 1909;

"As to your suggestion that I don't fight fight Langford in the event I whipped Burns, I will say that I am open to all comers and would not call myself the champion if I cannot defend the title. I gave my word to my English friends to fight Langford, win or lose with Burns, and I shall do so. I know Sam has whipped some good men in America lately and that I am going up against warm proposition, but you will remember I bested him in our fifteen-round fight, and while he has improved a great deal from his recent fights, I have learned a thing or two myself. I do think, however, that Sam is the best today in the game outside of myself; but when we fight get a big bunch on me, for 'I'll deliver the goods'.
Jack Johnson, Champion of the World, of Galveston, Texas, U.S.A."

Johnson signs the agreement to face Langford in London, publicly states that he has agreed to the fight in many sources, and then pulls out of the fight around Mar 18th, of 1909, gets himself called a "coward" and "yellow" by the press (some papers, such as the Times Dispatch, Apr 18th, report that Johnson was "hot under the collar" and whatnot over being called such things, but still stuck to his backing out of the fight, as well as getting called out by the manager (a Mr. Bettinson) of the NSC for failing to honour the agreement, and then publicly admits on Apr 19that "he broke his word" after stating that he "had promised to fight Langford at London (both quotes taken from Washington Times, Apr 19th, 1909)

Yes and based on his results in 1909 a prime heavyweight Sam Langford 175 pounds ( not the 156 pound 20 year old . Sam says he was even lighter ) would be a very good match, Johnson's results in 1909 were suspect. A news draw to a 162 pound O'Brien ( some felt O'Brien was the better) and a TKO loss in a 4 round ex match to Gunboat Smith who also was not selected for a title match despite being the most qualified " white hope " of the times.

Good post.

[Ivich]

Was Langford just being a good 'colored boy' by saying that just not to squeeze himself out of paydays by pissing off promoters, e.g Billy Delaney, Honest Bill Bradey, or Jack Curley ETC.

Langford's record at the end of 1904. (22-2-13)

In that time he had beaten Gans (LW) on pts and had drawn with Joe Walcott (142 lbs.) and Chappy Blackburn (LW). No one else of note.

IMO I doubt Sam Langford was on anyone's HW radar in 1904, and no one would have been listening if he had had an opinion on Jeffries. He hadn't yet proven he could win even a LW or WW title at that point.

I would like to know when Langford was quoted. It, in 1904, seems an odd duck of a quote to be recorded (noticed). But maybe.

Maybe he said it a few years later when he was somebody. Still for the same reason, not to be disruptive by trying to break the color line (for the HW Championship. HW Championship is where the line truly existed.)

In 1909 Langford weighed a verified 158lbs for his fight with Iron Hague in London.
That same year Langford drew with Jim Barry 17-9-5
He also drew with Sandy Ferguson whom Johnson toyed with several times. In Feb 1910 Langford lost to Jim Flynn whom Johnson had no trouble beating twice .
Davidson of The LA Herald gave Flynn the newspaper decision, saying Langford's face at the end was a bloody mess.

What results of Langford in1909 suggest that he would beat Johnson at that time?