Hopkins myth of great MW

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Am I mistaken about the Hopkins Jones first fight? I know it was a wide decision but if memory serves correct Hopkins was competative with Jones that fight. I admit I am too lazy to rewatch the fight given Hopkins exciting style lol. But am i missing something? because like three people who mentioned the fight make it appear that JOnes beat Hopkins like a drum, when I remember a close technical fight, that Jones won easily but was somewhat competative.

Hopkins did a good job of being pesky... he hid a lot behind the guard and jab, and Roy could never land anything spectacular and Roy just potshot from the outside and won nearly every round.. Roy never had Hopkins in any trouble, but Hopkins couldn't do enough to win rounds, so it was a wide margin by Roy, but not in clearly dominant form..

[joseph5620]

Most consider Bernard a top ten competitor at 160, I don't!
His best win is against Johnson who was an undefeated fighter but his record then was filled with nobodies!
Bernard has talent and he has an uncanny way of dissecting his opponents but that doesn't make him a GREAT fighter. He holds a record of successive wins against who?
Do you consider Oscar and Trinidad real middleweights?
John David? He barely got by Reggie Johnson and who did John David every beat?
Yes these guys were pretty decent but they weren't the maniacs that Hagler had to fight! Sleep well before you see Antuofermo or Hamsho across the ring for 15 rounds. Your concerned the stool might be brought in after they push the ref out of the ring hahahaha........... Hopkins didn't face those animals or anything near what was given to Marvin.

He only had 15 bouts at 175 but he fought better opponents and he won some and lost a few.
Bernard's skill set to me is the play it safe and out last the guy similar to his longevity stint. I can appreciate his moxy but there's nothing exciting or suspenseful about his appearances.

I doubt he's in my top twenty at 160, theres many more middleweights that have more appeal than he has.

Ray

Why would you not consider Trinidad a middleweight? He sure as hell wasn't a welterweight where he was killing himself to make 147 during his last fights there. He also walked right through William Joppy who was a good middleweight fighter. Trinidad was also favored to beat Hopkins so any notion after the fact that he wasn't a middleweight is ridiculous.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Why would you not consider Trinidad a middleweight? He sure as hell wasn't a welterweight where he was killing himself to make 147 during his last fights there. He also walked right through William Joppy who was a good middleweight fighter. Trinidad was also favored to beat Hopkins so any notion after the fact that he wasn't a middleweight is ridiculous.

That's how I see it as well. People claim Trinidad wasn't a legit mw using lack of punching power at 160. But the guy destroyed joppy, mayorga, and cherfi, he just wasn't able to knock out prime Hopkins and winky. 2 of the toughest guys in a generation to stop.

Oscar had no business at 160, but Tito was a legit fighter at 160.

And if Hopkins wasn't around, Tito probably rules that division until winky or Taylor arrives. I don't see any mw on Hopkins resume that Tito wouldn't beat except for Roy Jones ..

And Tito might have knocked out Taylor for all we know had they collided in 2005

[joseph5620]

That's how I see it as well. People claim Trinidad wasn't a legit mw using lack of punching power at 160. But the guy destroyed joppy, mayorga, and cherfi, he just wasn't able to knock out prime Hopkins and winky. 2 of the toughest guys in a generation to stop.

Oscar had no business at 160, but Tito was a legit fighter at 160.

And if Hopkins wasn't around, Tito probably rules that division until winky or Taylor arrives. I don't see any mw on Hopkins resume that Tito wouldn't beat except for Roy Jones ..

And Tito might have knocked out Taylor for all we know had they collided in 2005

I agree and I can understand Oscar not being considered a legitimate middleweight. But Trinidad was only about 21 years old when he first won the welterweight title. That along with his long frame should have been obvious that he was not going to be a career welterweight.

[The Akbar One]

That's how I see it as well. People claim Trinidad wasn't a legit mw using lack of punching power at 160. But the guy destroyed joppy, mayorga, and cherfi, he just wasn't able to knock out prime Hopkins and winky. 2 of the toughest guys in a generation to stop.

Oscar had no business at 160, but Tito was a legit fighter at 160.

And if Hopkins wasn't around, Tito probably rules that division until winky or Taylor arrives. I don't see any mw on Hopkins resume that Tito wouldn't beat except for Roy Jones ..

And Tito might have knocked out Taylor for all we know had they collided in 2005

Not sure about that. Trinidad wasn't indestructible. The Allen from the first Hopkins fight would have whopped Tito's arse. The version of Echols that Hopkins fought twice would have had a chance as well with Tito's shaky chin. I agree though that people claiming Tito wasn't a real middleweight, are idiots. He destroyed a middleweight titlist, and a top 10 middleweight contender. Nobody else beat those guys like that, that I recall. Trinidad was a legit middleweight. He would destroy guys like David Lemieux, Andy Lee, Macklin, Wade, Rubio etc.

[Ray Corso]

Trinidad had 5 fights at 160 going 3-3 I'll throw in his junior middleweight bouts as middleweight test and that's an extra 3!!

6 to 9 bouts doesn't make a legit middleweight.
He beat Mayorga who lost 9 bouts out of 40 and was stopped 6 times.
Then theres Cherifi who lost 12 out of 50 and was stopped 7 times!!!!

I like Tito but his value was at welter not middle.
Sugar Ray Robinson he is NOT!

Ray

[Kigali]

He is great fighter but not MW ,he have no good win at this devison and mostly given credit for what he done in LHW and i think his one of the best LHWs but not MWs ,what do you think?

Name a polish fighter that is better

[Canelo and GGG]

Name a polish fighter that is better

How is this related to thread ?i called him one of the best LHWS ever ,so im not even attacking bhop here ,idk whats your Point

[The Old LefHook]

Trinidad had 5 fights at 160 going 3-3 I'll throw in his junior middleweight bouts as middleweight test and that's an extra 3!!

6 to 9 bouts doesn't make a legit middleweight.
He beat Mayorga who lost 9 bouts out of 40 and was stopped 6 times.
Then theres Cherifi who lost 12 out of 50 and was stopped 7 times!!!!

I like Tito but his value was at welter not middle.
Sugar Ray Robinson he is NOT!

Ray

I cannot disagree with any of this. Tito was not much of a middleweight despite his proportions. Does he even make top 10 as an AT welterweight? I doubt it, but he at least gets close. Those heavy legs could only go straight forward. Tito would be lucky to make the top 100 as a middleweight.

[billeau2]

I cannot disagree with any of this. Tito was not much of a middleweight despite his proportions. Does he even make top 10 as an AT welterweight? I doubt it, but he at least gets close. Those heavy legs could only go straight forward. Tito would be lucky to make the top 100 as a middleweight.

He was a great puncher so he carried up...When you look at his record you realize Ray is right...frankly I had to look because i remembered him as a middle weight...when he fought Vargas it was for light middle weight.

As a Welter he has some names...Carr, Camacho, De La Hoya, Whitaker... Its a hard call, he certainly went far as a puncher with not much mobility. But there are a lot of guys who could fight at welter lol.