Was James j jeffries one of the greatest?

[Dr Z]

You see, you are trying to twist the facts. You reply as if Nat never saw Jeffries. I assure you that Nat saw numerous boxing films of Jeffires much of which have disappeared and been degraded over time in his writing years.

You assured me Holmes was kicked out of Ali's camp. Not true. You assured me Tyson was ahead in the Botha fight when he finally stopped him. Not true. You assuring anything is less than reliable at this point. What fights did he see and how are you going to back it up? Right now you're not assuring anything, you're guessing.

And I stand by reading that. Maybe it was not in the Ali book. Maybe it is. I do not own the book. This is a Jeffries thread please stop switching the subject.

Do you really think Nat did not see Jeffires on film. That is asinine. Yet you write, "

You can assure me Nat saw Jeffries fight?"

YES, I can.

[Willie Pep 229]

I thought only two Jeffries fights were ever filmed. Johnson and the Sharkey rematch.

The Sharkey rematch was filmed indoors under artificial lights and has a dismal image and is also, I believe incomplete.

At the turn of the century, when an major fight was being filmed, the filming iyself was popular news. Because it was quite uncommon.

I can't imagine what film of Jeffries, Fleischer could have viewed that we don't know about today, even if we consider possibly lost films.

When we look for the infamous Greb-Tunney fight, it took place in 1922 and Tex Rickard (and others) by that time were filming all the major fights. So we have lost films.

But this was the 1920s and Hollywood was in full swing with Chaplin-Keaton-Fairbanks-Pickford.

Film production companies were plentiful and theatres stretched across America. Even with the Sims Law in place money, via bribes and friendly judges, fight films drew big crowds across the country.

But this was not the case during Jeffries tenure. The medium was in its infancy.

The only decent copy we have of Jeffries is the 1910 Johnson fight, and that's because film had a revolution in innovation between 1890-1910.

I don't believe Jeffries fights (say circa 1903) were filmed than lost. I believe there never was much film of Jeffries.

But I wish to be educated if one knows these films do or did existed.

[Ben Bolt]

There are a few minutes of Jeffries vs Ruhlin on youtube.

Boxrec: The Akron Daily D*mocrat reported the following on November 16, 1901:
Almost from the beginning of the fight Ruhlin appeared to be scared. In the second round, when Jeffries landed a left hook on the jaw, it seemed that all the fight was gone out of Gus. In the fifth, after a round in which Ruhlin had all the worst of the fighting, he was assisted to his corner and claimed that a chance blow on the pit of the stomach had rendered him unfit for fighting. His seconds tried to induce him to continue, but Gus insisted that he was the victim of an accidental punch. Jeffries walked to Ruhlin's corner, asked what was the mutter, and then turned and went to his dressing room, while the crowd cheered him and denounced Ruhlin as a quitter and a faker.

Jeffries: "I was certainly surprised at my easy victory and Ruhlin's amazing defeat. While it is true that he did not punish me hard enough during the five rounds to cause me any alarm, I believed him strong and cautious up to the moment of his collapse, and was surprised when he quit. I certainly had no difficulty in whipping him, and had the fight gone on the result must have been the same. Ruhlin was inaccurate and in poor wind, and I cannot say that he even had the courage and force I expected to encounter in him."

Ruhlin: "I believed from the top of the gong that I would win, but as the fight progressed I was beaten down until I received a blow in the stomach, which I must say was very low, but which may not have been a foul, and which no living man could have survived. Jeffries departed from the written rules and from the common regulations of boxing when he threw himself upon me and wrestled rather than sparred. I do believe that had I not received the stomach punch, I would have worn down Mr. Jeffries a few rounds later and beaten him as a matter of endurance."

[Willie Pep 229]

There are a few minutes of Jeffries vs Ruhlin on youtube.

Boxrec: The Akron Daily D*mocrat reported the following on November 16, 1901:
Almost from the beginning of the fight Ruhlin appeared to be scared. In the second round, when Jeffries landed a left hook on the jaw, it seemed that all the fight was gone out of Gus. In the fifth, after a round in which Ruhlin had all the worst of the fighting, he was assisted to his corner and claimed that a chance blow on the pit of the stomach had rendered him unfit for fighting. His seconds tried to induce him to continue, but Gus insisted that he was the victim of an accidental punch. Jeffries walked to Ruhlin's corner, asked what was the mutter, and then turned and went to his dressing room, while the crowd cheered him and denounced Ruhlin as a quitter and a faker.

Jeffries: "I was certainly surprised at my easy victory and Ruhlin's amazing defeat. While it is true that he did not punish me hard enough during the five rounds to cause me any alarm, I believed him strong and cautious up to the moment of his collapse, and was surprised when he quit. I certainly had no difficulty in whipping him, and had the fight gone on the result must have been the same. Ruhlin was inaccurate and in poor wind, and I cannot say that he even had the courage and force I expected to encounter in him."

Ruhlin: "I believed from the top of the gong that I would win, but as the fight progressed I was beaten down until I received a blow in the stomach, which I must say was very low, but which may not have been a foul, and which no living man could have survived. Jeffries departed from the written rules and from the common regulations of boxing when he threw himself upon me and wrestled rather than sparred. I do believe that had I not received the stomach punch, I would have worn down Mr. Jeffries a few rounds later and beaten him as a matter of endurance."

Boy nothing does change but the date.

Jeffries: "I had him all the way."

Ruhlin: "I was fouled."

[Biledriver]

I thought only two Jeffries fights were ever filmed. Johnson and the Sharkey rematch.

The Sharkey rematch was filmed indoors under artificial lights and has a dismal image and is also, I believe incomplete.

At the turn of the century, when an major fight was being filmed, the filming iyself was popular news. Because it was quite uncommon.

I can't imagine what film of Jeffries, Fleischer could have viewed that we don't know about today, even if we consider possibly lost films.

When we look for the infamous Greb-Tunney fight, it took place in 1922 and Tex Rickard (and others) by that time were filming all the major fights. So we have lost films.

But this was the 1920s and Hollywood was in full swing with Chaplin-Keaton-Fairbanks-Pickford.

Film production companies were plentiful and theatres stretched across America. Even with the Sims Law in place money, via bribes and friendly judges, fight films drew big crowds across the country.

But this was not the case during Jeffries tenure. The medium was in its infancy.

The only decent copy we have of Jeffries is the 1910 Johnson fight, and that's because film had a revolution in innovation between 1890-1910.

I don't believe Jeffries fights (say circa 1903) were filmed than lost. I believe there never was much film of Jeffries.

But I wish to be educated if one knows these films do or did existed.

It's possible that more were filmed, but from what I understand many fight films were destroyed during WWII to obtain their silver nitrate content (where the term "Silver Screen" comes from) for the war effort. How many classic fighters had footage lost in that fashion? I just don't know.

[JAB5239]

I thought only two Jeffries fights were ever filmed. Johnson and the Sharkey rematch.

The Sharkey rematch was filmed indoors under artificial lights and has a dismal image and is also, I believe incomplete.

At the turn of the century, when an major fight was being filmed, the filming iyself was popular news. Because it was quite uncommon.

I can't imagine what film of Jeffries, Fleischer could have viewed that we don't know about today, even if we consider possibly lost films.

When we look for the infamous Greb-Tunney fight, it took place in 1922 and Tex Rickard (and others) by that time were filming all the major fights. So we have lost films.

But this was the 1920s and Hollywood was in full swing with Chaplin-Keaton-Fairbanks-Pickford.

Film production companies were plentiful and theatres stretched across America. Even with the Sims Law in place money, via bribes and friendly judges, fight films drew big crowds across the country.

But this was not the case during Jeffries tenure. The medium was in its infancy.

The only decent copy we have of Jeffries is the 1910 Johnson fight, and that's because film had a revolution in innovation between 1890-1910.

I don't believe Jeffries fights (say circa 1903) were filmed than lost. I believe there never was much film of Jeffries.

But I wish to be educated if one knows these films do or did existed.

He did see Johnson-Jeffries from what i found, but he was seventeen at the time. You make a valid point about film back then, but its hard to say for certain.

[Dr Z]

I thought only two Jeffries fights were ever filmed. Johnson and the Sharkey rematch.

The Sharkey rematch was filmed indoors under artificial lights and has a dismal image and is also, I believe incomplete.

At the turn of the century, when an major fight was being filmed, the filming iyself was popular news. Because it was quite uncommon.

I can't imagine what film of Jeffries, Fleischer could have viewed that we don't know about today, even if we consider possibly lost films.

When we look for the infamous Greb-Tunney fight, it took place in 1922 and Tex Rickard (and others) by that time were filming all the major fights. So we have lost films.

But this was the 1920s and Hollywood was in full swing with Chaplin-Keaton-Fairbanks-Pickford.

Film production companies were plentiful and theatres stretched across America. Even with the Sims Law in place money, via bribes and friendly judges, fight films drew big crowds across the country.

But this was not the case during Jeffries tenure. The medium was in its infancy.

The only decent copy we have of Jeffries is the 1910 Johnson fight, and that's because film had a revolution in innovation between 1890-1910.

I don't believe Jeffries fights (say circa 1903) were filmed than lost. I believe there never was much film of Jeffries.

But I wish to be educated if one knows these films do or did existed.

Asside from Sharkey II here's what out there:



Ruhlin vs. Jeffries was filmed and survives to this day. It was made in 1901.

Jeffries vs. Munore was filmed and presumably is out there. That one was filmed in 1904. I have not seen it.




Clips of Jeffries vs. Fitzsimmons 1 may be out there.

Other films of Jeffries sparring and working out can be seen.


Jogging with Ryan. I saw it.

Sparring with his brother I saw it.

[QueensburyRules]

I thought only two Jeffries fights were ever filmed. Johnson and the Sharkey rematch.

The Sharkey rematch was filmed indoors under artificial lights and has a dismal image and is also, I believe incomplete.

At the turn of the century, when an major fight was being filmed, the filming iyself was popular news. Because it was quite uncommon.

I can't imagine what film of Jeffries, Fleischer could have viewed that we don't know about today, even if we consider possibly lost films.

When we look for the infamous Greb-Tunney fight, it took place in 1922 and Tex Rickard (and others) by that time were filming all the major fights. So we have lost films.

But this was the 1920s and Hollywood was in full swing with Chaplin-Keaton-Fairbanks-Pickford.

Film production companies were plentiful and theatres stretched across America. Even with the Sims Law in place money, via bribes and friendly judges, fight films drew big crowds across the country.

But this was not the case during Jeffries tenure. The medium was in its infancy.

The only decent copy we have of Jeffries is the 1910 Johnson fight, and that's because film had a revolution in innovation between 1890-1910.

I don't believe Jeffries fights (say circa 1903) were filmed than lost. I believe there never was much film of Jeffries.

But I wish to be educated if one knows these films do or did existed.

- - Seen at least three, but definitely all his title fights were filmed, but Boxing has seldom ever had a sense of History.

Fitz/Corbett was the first ever blockbuster that went international and made $100s of thousands of $$$ that prompted the rapid rise of movie theaters. The US National Film Registry never recognized the fight as the first ever blockbuster that needed preservation until I wrote them a letter politely in 2010 along with letters to boxing Senators John McCain and Henry Reed and to Clint Eastwood.

Much of the film and most of the others were lost because of that incompetent oversight. Hollywood never gave a flying F either.

Interesting story has one of Jeff's fights filmed out of a cigar box which was impossible given the technology then and for a long time after.

[JAB5239]

- - Seen at least three, but definitely all his title fights were filmed, but Boxing has seldom ever had a sense of History.

Fitz/Corbett was the first ever blockbuster that went international and made $100s of thousands of $$$ that prompted the rapid rise of movie theaters. The US National Film Registry never recognized the fight as the first ever blockbuster that needed preservation until I wrote them a letter politely in 2010 along with letters to boxing Senators John McCain and Henry Reed and to Clint Eastwood.

Much of the film and most of the others were lost because of that incompetent oversight. Hollywood never gave a flying F either.

Interesting story has one of Jeff's fights filmed out of a cigar box which was impossible given the technology then and for a long time after.

I'm seeing only two of his fights were filmed, but several of his championship fights were recreated in parts for film.

[ShoulderRoll]

- - So what. His record against common opponents of JJohnson blows Johnson out of the water.

Nobody then and now cares what wannabee boxing fans think about history they are clueless about.

I said nothing about Jack Johnson. You’re making up your own discussion and arguing it.