Was James j jeffries one of the greatest?

[Willie Pep 229]

OK, so Jeffries was a racist or a puppet of segregation, whichever floats your boat, but this has to be the 12th time we have had to suffer this thread in the two years I have been on this site.

Is this to be a bi-monthly tradition where we drag out the same arguments and the same sources and make the same points every two months?

In two years not a single new source has appeared, nor have I heard a new argument made.

So what's the point, are we just periodically feeding someone's racist needs, left or right?

Redundancy is the religion being preached here and it is really getting boring.

[Bronson66]

- - No he wouldn't, nor did he want to upset the applecart of Heavyweight history. Nor does the timeline show Johnson appreciably better than Munroe who was a hugely better physical specimen.

Johnson was not appreciably better than Munroe? That is your stated opinion?
Here is the report of their fight.
According to the Philadelphia Record, it was plain Munroe had not really trained for this fight as he appeared flabby and pale, and had not learned anything since the loss to Jim Jeffries. As the ex-miner offered no real threat to Johnson, the Galveston heavyweight merely boxed with him from the third round on, making no serious attempt to put Munroe away but beating him badly.

"...Jack Johnson, the California colored heavyweight, made a veritable punching bag of Jack Munroe, the Butte Miner, at the National Athletic Club last night..."

Munroe on the left v Jeffries.It was remarked most of Munroe's weight was below the waist
image.png

[Bronson66]

OK, so Jeffries was a racist or a puppet of segregation, whichever floats your boat, but this has to be the 12th time we have had to suffer this thread in the two years I have been on this site.

Is this to be a bi-monthly tradition where we drag out the same arguments and the same sources and make the same points every two months?

In two years not a single new source has appeared, nor have I heard a new argument made.

So what's the point, are we just periodically feeding someone's racist needs, left or right?

Because, redundancy is the true religion being preached here and it is really getting boring.

With the possible exception of one poster I don't think the posts are racially motivated.
Maybe I'm being dumb but ,with that one possible exception ,what strikes you as being racially prejudicial here?

Jeffries racial opinions were no different to the majority of Whites of his time,I doubt he was as virulent a racist as Corbett and I doubt Jeffries gave a **** what the public thought of him,he seemed indifferent to both the media and public's perception of him.
Possibly the reason old subjects are revisited is posters come and go.TBH I didn't even look who made this thread?
Jeffries standing as champion and his circle of fans ,is like so many others whose admirers are dwindling because of,"natural wastage",and newer idols coming on the scene every year.
Two of my own, all time top ten heavyweights have been deposed by the arrival of Tyson and Holyfield
For my part ,Jeff was an uncompromising,rugged, tough as old boots,man's man, whose whole self identity was wrapped up in his personal perception of his physical prowess.Gruff and taciturn I doubt there was a phony bone in his whole body.

[them_apples]

With the possible exception of one poster I don't think the posts are racially motivated.
Maybe I'm being dumb but ,with that one possible exception ,what strikes you as being racially motivated here?

Jeffries racial opinions were no different to the majority of Whites of his time,I doubt he was as virulent a racist as Corbett and I doubt Jeffries gave a **** what the public thought of him,he seemed indifferent to both the media and public's perception of him.
Possibly the reason old subjects are revisited is posters come and go.TBH I didn't even look who made this thread?
Jeffries standing as champion and his circle pf fans ,is like so many others whose admirers are dwindling because of,"natural wastage",and newer idols.
For my part ,he was an uncompromising,rugged, tough as old boots,man's man, whose whole self identity was wrapped up in his personal perception of his physical prowess.Gruff and taciturn I doubt there was a phony bone in his whole body.

I also observe Johnson took a few ideas off Jeffries. The smooth operator "mocking you while I toy with you" attitude closely resembled Jeffries, who came before Johnson. Langford states this about Johnsons style, and it looks as though he incorporated this into his own version as well.

Sort of like how every fighter today is immitating Floyd, down to his stuttering, talking while training, pursing the lips and even using his phrases "hard work!" " easy work!" LOL

[Bronson66]

I also observe Johnson took a few ideas off Jeffries. The smooth operator "mocking you while I toy with you" attitude closely resembled Jeffries, who came before Johnson. Langford states this about Johnsons style, and it looks as though he incorporated this into his own version as well.

Sort of like how every fighter today is immitating Floyd, down to his stuttering, talking while training, pursing the lips and even using his phrases "hard work!" " easy work!" LOL

While it's nice to see you posting here, I don't think Jeffries was noted for trash talk in the ring.

[QueensburyRules]

Johnson was not appreciably better than Munroe? That is your stated opinion?
Here is the report of their fight.
According to the Philadelphia Record, it was plain Munroe had not really trained for this fight as he appeared flabby and pale, and had not learned anything since the loss to Jim Jeffries. As the ex-miner offered no real threat to Johnson, the Galveston heavyweight merely boxed with him from the third round on, making no serious attempt to put Munroe away but beating him badly.

"...Jack Johnson, the California colored heavyweight, made a veritable punching bag of Jack Munroe, the Butte Miner, at the National Athletic Club last night..."

Munroe on the left v Jeffries.It was remarked most of Munroe's weight was below the waist
image.png

- - 215 vs Jeff and KOed in the 2nd rd.
200px-Munroe_jack.jpg

Moreover, Munroe has an infinitely better record vs Hank Griffin as does James Jeffries. JJ had 3 bouts to solve Griffin and failed all 3...

Mo' moreover, I have an infinitely better record here than you.

[Bronson66]

- - 215 vs Jeff and KOed in the 2nd rd.
200px-Munroe_jack.jpg



Moreover, Munroe has an infinitely better record vs Hank Griffin as does James Jeffries. JJ had 3 bouts to solve Griffin and failed all 3...

Mo' moreover, I have an infinitely better record here than you.

How do you work that out ?Munroe lost to20 years old Griffin and drew with21years old Griffin.
Johnson lost his 1st fight with Griffin and drew all his next 3 fights with him.
Munroe's record is 9-3-25 of his wins were over debutees.His best win was over a washed up Sharkey who hadn't won any of his last 3 fights,his only other win of any note was over Maher who had won 1 of his last 5,and that was over Joe Grim The Human Punching Bag. You think that record compares to Johnson's?
Which of us is the better poster is up to the forum to decide.

[QueensburyRules]

How do you work that out ?Munroe lost to20 years old Griffin and drew with21years old Griffin.
Johnson lost his 1st fight with Griffin and drew all his next 3 fights with him.

- - One helluva debut vs Hank Griffin tops Johnson.

17 1 3

Watsonville Opera House, Watsonville

L-PTS

20/20

[Bronson66]

- - One helluva debut vs Hank Griffin tops Johnson.

17 1 3

Watsonville Opera House, Watsonville

L-PTS

20/20

He didn't win.

[QueensburyRules]

He didn't win.

- - Don't need to win when his debut is considerably stronger than both Johnson's debut and actual record vs Griffin, both miserable...