Was James j jeffries one of the greatest?

[QueensburyRules]

Wrong. He stated he wouldn't fight Johnson even before the Hart bout...because he knew he'd get that ass beat.


Or as he would say, "I refuse to fight a Black man, just because I say so."

1904 - Clearly before the Hart/Johnson Fight.

- - Martin down three times in the second round. "..Manager McCarey of the Century Athletic Club announced that he would offer a $15, 000 guarantee for a match between Jeffries and Johnson..."

Peanut$ suits you perfectly. Doesn't change JJ had a miserable 1905 when Jeffries retired to his alfalfa farm to blow up to 350lb.

And so where was the $$$ for the fight then compared to 6 years later?

• The purse was $101,000. Originally, the winner was to get 75% and the loser 25%. Five days before the fight, Johnson proposed changing it to an even 50/50 split. Jeffries suggested a 60/40 split, which Johnson accepted. Each fighter was given a $10,000 signing bonus. Jeffries was given $66,666 for movie rights and Johnson was given $50,000.
• Jeffries opened as a 10-7 favorite. Odds climbed as high as 2?1 for Jeffries.
• The fight was to take place in San Francisco, until California's governor, James Gillett, stepped in with less than three weeks to go. Boxing was still banned in many states, and church groups had pressured him to stop it on moral and religious grounds. Promoter acted swiftly and moved the bout to Reno, where prizefighting was legal and several east-west railroads met.
• There were rumors of a fix, and Nevada Governor Denver ****erson demanded an assurance from Rickard that the fight be fair, not fixed.

They actually collectively cleared $200,000 with JJ as the winner just over $100K and Jeff just under $100K.

The movie rights were minimal because Many Local Legislators outlawed this fight to prevent future riots.

To Wit:

Two weeks after the match former President , an avid boxer and fan, wrote an article for in which he supported banning not just moving pictures of boxing matches, but a complete ban on all U.S. prize fights. He cited the "crookedness" and gambIling that surrounded such contests and that moving pictures have "introduced a new method of money getting and of demoralization". The controversy surrounding the film directly motivated Congress to ban distribution of all prize-fight films across state lines in 1912; the ban was lifted in 1940.

[Bronson66]

- - Martin down three times in the second round. "..Manager McCarey of the Century Athletic Club announced that he would offer a $15, 000 guarantee for a match between Jeffries and Johnson..."

Peanut$ suits you perfectly. Doesn't change JJ had a miserable 1905 when Jeffries retired to his alfalfa farm to blow up to 350lb.

And so where was the $$$ for the fight then compared to 6 years later?

• The purse was $101,000. Originally, the winner was to get 75% and the loser 25%. Five days before the fight, Johnson proposed changing it to an even 50/50 split. Jeffries suggested a 60/40 split, which Johnson accepted. Each fighter was given a $10,000 signing bonus. Jeffries was given $66,666 for movie rights and Johnson was given $50,000.
• Jeffries opened as a 10-7 favorite. Odds climbed as high as 2?1 for Jeffries.
• The fight was to take place in San Francisco, until California's governor, James Gillett, stepped in with less than three weeks to go. Boxing was still banned in many states, and church groups had pressured him to stop it on moral and religious grounds. Promoter acted swiftly and moved the bout to Reno, where prizefighting was legal and several east-west railroads met.
• There were rumors of a fix, and Nevada Governor Denver ****erson demanded an assurance from Rickard that the fight be fair, not fixed.

They actually collectively cleared $200,000 with JJ as the winner just over $100K and Jeff just under $100K.

The movie rights were minimal because Many Local Legislators outlawed this fight to prevent future riots.

To Wit:

Two weeks after the match former President , an avid boxer and fan, wrote an article for in which he supported banning not just moving pictures of boxing matches, but a complete ban on all U.S. prize fights. He cited the "crookedness" and gambIling that surrounded such contests and that moving pictures have "introduced a new method of money getting and of demoralization". The controversy surrounding the film directly motivated Congress to ban distribution of all prize-fight films across state lines in 1912; the ban was lifted in 1940.

Jeffries would have earned more from fighting either Johnson or McVey then he received for fighting Munroe. both Johnson and Jeffreis received a third each of the film rights which was a very considerable amount of money,there was no talk of films of the fight being banned before the fight.

[Bronson66]

- - Welcome to fight that dated quote.

After the Hart win, Jeffries announced there were no more compelling fights and he was retiring.

No matter, JJ had a miserable 1905 year with Hart and Jeannette whooping him...

Johnson had 13 fights in1905 losing 2 both of which were highly debateable.

[Bronson66]

- - Welcome to fight that dated quote.

After the Hart win, Jeffries announced there were no more compelling fights and he was retiring.

No matter, JJ had a miserable 1905 year with Hart and Jeannette whooping him...

Johnson had 13 fights in1905 losing 2 both of which were highly debateable.

[match maker]

Johnson had 13 fights in1905 losing 2 both of which were highly debateable.

Your back? Your good bye to the board did not last long.

Johnson has 23+ fight in 1901 who Ko'd him in 3 rounds.

1894 John Lee Galveston, Tx W 16
-Some sources report "KO 15"
Undated (circa 1894-95) Dave Pierson Galveston, Tx W

1895Apr 11 Galveston, Tx L 4 -Some sources report 1899
1896 Cherokee Kansas City, Ks KO Howard Pollar Galveston, Tx W 1897 Jim Rocks Galveston, Tx KO 4 Sam Smith Galveston, Tx W 101898 Reddy Bremer Galveston, Tx KO 3 Jim Cole Galveston, Tx W 4 Henry Smith Galveston, Tx D 151899Feb 11 Jim McCormick Galveston, Tx D 7Mar 17 Jim McCormick Galveston, Tx WF 7May 6 Chicago, Il LT 5
-Reports vary - 5/05/99 - 5/08/99;
Some sources report "LT 6"Dec 16 Pat Smith Galveston, Tx D 121900Mar 7 John Lee Galveston, Tx W 15Mar 20 Willie McNeal Galveston, Tx KO 15Apr 6 Bob White Galveston, Tx W 15Apr 12 Charley Brooks Galveston, Tx KO 2May 1 Jim Scanlan Galveston, Tx KO 7May 6 Jim McCormick Galveston, Tx KO 2May 28 Jim McCormick Galveston, Tx KO 7Jun 12 Horace Miles Galveston, Tx KO 3Jun 25 Galveston, Tx D 20 -Some sources report 6/28/00
Oct George Lawler Galveston, Tx KO 10Nov Josh Mills Memphis, Tn W 12Dec 27 Memphis, Tn TK 14 -Some sources report 12/28/00
1901Feb 25 Galveston, Tx LK 3 -Both fighters were arrested after the fight

[travestyny]

- - Martin down three times in the second round. "..Manager McCarey of the Century Athletic Club announced that he would offer a $15, 000 guarantee for a match between Jeffries and Johnson..."

Peanut$ suits you perfectly. Doesn't change JJ had a miserable 1905 when Jeffries retired to his alfalfa farm to blow up to 350lb.

And so where was the $$$ for the fight then compared to 6 years later?

• The purse was $101,000. Originally, the winner was to get 75% and the loser 25%. Five days before the fight, Johnson proposed changing it to an even 50/50 split. Jeffries suggested a 60/40 split, which Johnson accepted. Each fighter was given a $10,000 signing bonus. Jeffries was given $66,666 for movie rights and Johnson was given $50,000.
• Jeffries opened as a 10-7 favorite. Odds climbed as high as 2?1 for Jeffries.
• The fight was to take place in San Francisco, until California's governor, James Gillett, stepped in with less than three weeks to go. Boxing was still banned in many states, and church groups had pressured him to stop it on moral and religious grounds. Promoter acted swiftly and moved the bout to Reno, where prizefighting was legal and several east-west railroads met.
• There were rumors of a fix, and Nevada Governor Denver ****erson demanded an assurance from Rickard that the fight be fair, not fixed.

They actually collectively cleared $200,000 with JJ as the winner just over $100K and Jeff just under $100K.

The movie rights were minimal because Many Local Legislators outlawed this fight to prevent future riots.

To Wit:

Two weeks after the match former President , an avid boxer and fan, wrote an article for in which he supported banning not just moving pictures of boxing matches, but a complete ban on all U.S. prize fights. He cited the "crookedness" and gambIling that surrounded such contests and that moving pictures have "introduced a new method of money getting and of demoralization". The controversy surrounding the film directly motivated Congress to ban distribution of all prize-fight films across state lines in 1912; the ban was lifted in 1940.

How does this change that he clearly drew the colorline when he was champion....????

Why did Jeffries fight Munroe instead of Johnson or McVea? He certainly was offered more to fight McVea and you stated it was all about the money.

We both know you have no answer. Let it go.

[solidman]

Johnson was robbed against Hart

[Bronson66]

Johnson was robbed against Hart

That would be my interpretation of the fight.

George Siler the premier referee of the day called the verdict,"an exceedingly strange decision. "

Greggains was not only the referee ,he was the promoter,and as such I think had a vested interest in voting for the White fighter whose aggressive style was more fan friendly than the laid back Johnson's.
Greggains never said Hart was the better man,he said he gave him the nod because he fought a more aggressive fight,aggression is fine but it must be effective aggression to earn points,otherwise the likes of Floyd Mayweather would certainly not have a clean sheet today!

[Bronson66]

Your back? Your good bye to the board did not last long.

Johnson has 23+ fight in 1901 who Ko'd him in 3 rounds.

1894 John Lee Galveston, Tx W 16
-Some sources report "KO 15"
Undated (circa 1894-95) Dave Pierson Galveston, Tx W

1895Apr 11 Galveston, Tx L 4 -Some sources report 1899
1896 Cherokee Kansas City, Ks KO Howard Pollar Galveston, Tx W 1897 Jim Rocks Galveston, Tx KO 4 Sam Smith Galveston, Tx W 101898 Reddy Bremer Galveston, Tx KO 3 Jim Cole Galveston, Tx W 4 Henry Smith Galveston, Tx D 151899Feb 11 Jim McCormick Galveston, Tx D 7Mar 17 Jim McCormick Galveston, Tx WF 7May 6 Chicago, Il LT 5
-Reports vary - 5/05/99 - 5/08/99;
Some sources report "LT 6"Dec 16 Pat Smith Galveston, Tx D 121900Mar 7 John Lee Galveston, Tx W 15Mar 20 Willie McNeal Galveston, Tx KO 15Apr 6 Bob White Galveston, Tx W 15Apr 12 Charley Brooks Galveston, Tx KO 2May 1 Jim Scanlan Galveston, Tx KO 7May 6 Jim McCormick Galveston, Tx KO 2May 28 Jim McCormick Galveston, Tx KO 7Jun 12 Horace Miles Galveston, Tx KO 3Jun 25 Galveston, Tx D 20 -Some sources report 6/28/00
Oct George Lawler Galveston, Tx KO 10Nov Josh Mills Memphis, Tn W 12Dec 27 Memphis, Tn TK 14 -Some sources report 12/28/00
1901Feb 25 Galveston, Tx LK 3 -Both fighters were arrested after the fight

Dr Z. My post referred to1905 , which was clearly stated.Your banishment did not last long.

You have another opportunity here as an Alt ,I suggest you take it.

[QueensburyRules]

Jeffries would have earned more from fighting either Johnson or McVey then he received for fighting Munroe. both Johnson and Jeffreis received a third each of the film rights which was a very considerable amount of money,there was no talk of films of the fight being banned before the fight.

- - No he wouldn't, nor did he want to upset the applecart of Heavyweight history. Nor does the timeline show Johnson appreciably better than Munroe who was a hugely better physical specimen.