Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[HOUDINI563]

JAB goes back to the AOL boxing board days. He was a top rung poster then as he is today.

[Rusty Tromboni]

The fact that Langford was never given a title shot should be enough. You mention Burley, why no mention of Eddie Booker or Bert Lytell, jack Chase or Aaron Wade? Holman Williams? Cocoa kid? Should I go back further and rehash Langford and Wills? All these guys were excellent fighters either ducked or denied a title shot. There is plenty of history about it.

What about them? Maybe they were denied something they deserved based on something tangential to their actual Boxing ability, maybe not. Again, where's the proof?

With the fighters I listed, they were clearly the best in the world, and got gypped. I can provide indisputable instances not here say.

I'm just asking you to list clear instances of what you claimed earlier.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I've watched the fights, read the views of boxing historians and the newspapers of the day. I've reviewed records extensively for many years now, which plenty of posters here can attest to. The bottom line though, your opinion holds no water, and neither rhyme not reason. I'm not trying to be mean, it's just how it is.

Hahahaha!

That's amazing!

Hahahaha!

Look, I can explain it to you, but I can't UNDERSTAND it for you.

I actually expected another vaccuous response. You regularly make the appeal to authority.


If you'd really seen the fight, you'd see there's nothing fishy. Gans is fighting no differently than in other fights. Like others of his day, he was caught early and overwhelmed by McGovern.

Leading up to the fight McGovern had the better record; notably stopping Lightweight champion Frank Erne, who'd defeated Gans previously.

We see this kind of stuff play out on MMA all the time. Smaller gloves and an environment where technical skill is still developing results in regular upsets.

My opinion is pegged to the footage and their records. Rumors, folk tales, tabloid articles these aren't evidence no matter how desperately you need an escape route.

[Rusty Tromboni]

JAB goes back to the AOL boxing board days. He was a top rung poster then as he is today.

Where lore passed for canon law.

There wasn't YouTube, like today, where everyone could reference fights. BoxRec was a limited resource, too. Mostly it was whoever could trumpet the most authority based on assumed experiences. Not that it wasn't informative. Not that folks weren't pursuing the truth. But they would also have you believe Mendoza fought like Willie Pep. Gans fought like Robinson. And peter Jackson moved like Ali and hit like Louis.

Spending years cataloging articles is wonderful, but that doesn't make a man a historian. Historical research demands a high level of analysis; the last thing an actual researcher does is take written word at face value. And historians always defer to evidence nearest to the source.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Rusted Bucket making his case as a hysterian.

For the record Gans was swinging for the fences after the first McG KD took his legs away, desperation, not a dive.

The sources then as unreliable as the sources now.

[JAB5239]

Hahahaha!

That's amazing!

Hahahaha!

Look, I can explain it to you, but I can't UNDERSTAND it for you.

I actually expected another vaccuous response. You regularly make the appeal to authority.


If you'd really seen the fight, you'd see there's nothing fishy. Gans is fighting no differently than in other fights. Like others of his day, he was caught early and overwhelmed by McGovern.

Leading up to the fight McGovern had the better record; notably stopping Lightweight champion Frank Erne, who'd defeated Gans previously.

We see this kind of stuff play out on MMA all the time. Smaller gloves and an environment where technical skill is still developing results in regular upsets.

My opinion is pegged to the footage and their records. Rumors, folk tales, tabloid articles these aren't evidence no matter how desperately you need an escape route.

I love how you throw the Erne fight out there without mentioning the headbutt that led to a serious eye injury. Many accounts saying Gans eyeball was dislodged from the socket. You also fail to mention Gans stopped him in the first round of their rematch.

As far as the McGovern fight goes....I'll take the word of the thousands in attendance crying fix, the word of the referee himself and that of the Illinois athletic commission who outlawed boxing for more than a quarter century because of that blatant dive Gans was paid to take. You say it didn't happen, but you show no sources to support your case. Only YOUR opinion.

[JAB5239]

What about them? Maybe they were denied something they deserved based on something tangential to their actual Boxing ability, maybe not. Again, where's the proof?

With the fighters I listed, they were clearly the best in the world, and got gypped. I can provide indisputable instances not here say.

I'm just asking you to list clear instances of what you claimed earlier.

Let me get this straight.... you're asking me to rehash something that has been gone over and over for years and acknowledge and excepted by not only most fans, but historians of the sport and historians of society in general? How many times would you like to go over it and never open your eyes to it?

Let's instead go over the fighters you named and see what we can come up with.

McGovern
McFarland
Driscoll
Graham
Archer
Fury
Loughran

Off the top of my head I can dispute McGovern, Graham, Archer, Fury and Loughran as either getting their shots and winning a title (McGovern, Fury and Loughran), getting their shots and losing (Archer and Loughran) and getting their shots despite losing most of their biggest fights and losing said title shot (Graham).

I'm not trying to put any of those men down, but if would seriously like to compare resumes and circumstances with the fighters I named.... By all means, please do!

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Rusted Bucket making his case as a hysterian.

And yet I am able to draw you away from your hard work ressurecting decade old Zombie thread, and rants against "Fat Lar".

For the record Gans was swinging for the fences after the first McG KD took his legs away, desperation, not a dive.

The sources then as unreliable as the sources now.

Well at least you listen well.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I love how you throw the Erne fight out there without mentioning the headbutt that led to a serious eye injury.

Got proof of that? Let's see the reports.

Reports say Erne was well ahead.

The head butt was accidental, but that was also an accepted part of Boxing of the day.

Regardless of your interpretation the fight was ruled a TKO loss in the 12th round to a man KO'd by McGovern in 3. That's right, son.

This is a guy who proved his mettle against the likes of Lavigne, Gardner, Dixon, McFadden and Griffo. Of course you don't know who they are besides Dixon, but they were top flight fighters of their day. All as good or comparative to Gans, but neglected by history for their lack of melanin.

On top of that, Erne was as the most "scientific" man in Boxing. He was no slouch. He just bit;ched out once he tasted McGovern's power.

Many accounts saying Gans eyeball was dislodged from the socket.

You're fu'cking ******ed. you must wear vecro shoes. you really believe that!? you mustbea special kinda ******. has no one ever head butt you in a fight? smashing someone with a good loaf is the best way to end a fight early. It works great on thai fighters. But never, ever in my life have I encountered, first hand or through the g****vine, of a headbutt, let alone and accidental collision, yielding that kind of damage.

You're illustrating your ******ity yet again.

You also fail to mention Gans stopped him in the first round of their rematch.

Because it's irrelevant. Fighters fell off much faster back then. Life moved faster. Fights were more brutal. And training basically was fighting, but not for money.

Look at MMA, we see guys fall off suddenly, out of nowhere.

I can bring up Gans falling off against a bi'tch like Battling Nelson, but I don't.

As far as the McGovern fight goes....I'll take the word of the thousands in attendance crying fix, t

Thousands!? You interviewed them all?

[JAB5239]

Got proof of that? Let's see the reports.

Reports say Erne was well ahead.

The head butt was accidental, but that was also an accepted part of Boxing of the day.

Regardless of your interpretation the fight was ruled a TKO loss in the 12th round to a man KO'd by McGovern in 3. That's right, son.

This is a guy who proved his mettle against the likes of Lavigne, Gardner, Dixon, McFadden and Griffo. Of course you don't know who they are besides Dixon, but they were top flight fighters of their day. All as good or comparative to Gans, but neglected by history for their lack of melanin.

On top of that, Erne was as the most "scientific" man in Boxing. He was no slouch. He just bit;ched out once he tasted McGovern's power.




You're fu'cking ******ed. you must wear vecro shoes. you really believe that!? you mustbea special kinda ******. has no one ever head butt you in a fight? smashing someone with a good loaf is the best way to end a fight early. It works great on thai fighters. But never, ever in my life have I encountered, first hand or through the g****vine, of a headbutt, let alone and accidental collision, yielding that kind of damage.

You're illustrating your ******ity yet again.



Because it's irrelevant. Fighters fell off much faster back then. Life moved faster. Fights were more brutal. And training basically was fighting, but not for money.

Look at MMA, we see guys fall off suddenly, out of nowhere.

I can bring up Gans falling off against a bi'tch like Battling Nelson, but I don't.




Thousands!? You interviewed them all?

Yes I have proof, just like I do for the McGovern fight. You just choose to ignore it.

And yes, Erne was ahead. Would he have won without the injury? Who knows?

And no, it wasn't the first headbutt of the fight according to newspaper reports of the day. If you know different please post a link.

Lol, really? Erne proved himself but Gans didn't? You're comical!

If you had half a brain you would know Gans had many more fights at the time. So your point holds no value yet again.

So you're going to bring up Battling Nelson..in 2 of Gans last 3 fights....the hall of famer Nelson? LMAO......get a clue son!!

I don't need anymore proof than the FACT the crowd cried fix. But I'd be interested in a link saying otherwise. I'll wait of course. It's a far cry that Loughran claiming years later he was forced to fight for the knockout vs Carnerra. But hey, let's just rewrite history!! ��