How did America become so dependent on China???

[1bad65]

Don't we owe them money?

The Government has borrowed alot from China, yes.

But that's not really relevant as to why so many private sector companies have moved so much operations (namely manufacturing) over there.

[billeau2]

This isn't exactly true. No we aren't dependent on them in the sense that we would collapse without trade with them, but it would hurt, a lot. We are more like a heroin junkie.

Cutting or severely limiting trade with China wouldn't solve any of our core problems. Yes we use them for cheap labor and goods, but people need to ask why we need the cheap labor and goods. Asking people to pay higher prices and fork out more tax money in subsidies just shifts the problem around. It doesn't solve anything. The fact that we need to subsidize farmers now and would have to increase that should be a red flag that something else is the problem.

I'm all for telling China to take a flying leap, I don't think we should do any business with authoritarian regimes, but people need to realise that China is a symptom, not the disease.

A couple of issues here lets treat them separately.

I believe that having the capacity to not have farming run by multinational corporations is worth making farming attractive and subsidized. Farming is very tough work, in every way imaginable. I was privaleged to pick tobacco in Southern Maryland while in college...At the time I was 6 foot 180 pounds, a lean mean fighting machine, in shape to the max...working on that farm? kicked me in the azz.

If farming and farmers are not treated like royalty Monsanto will be happy to do the job and outsource the work. Farmers will take on less demanding tasks otherwise, who would not? Having a country with its own food supply imo is like having a house in a rural area with a state of the art generator that can run everything. Ill gladly pay for it.

As far as China and cheap goods? If we do not start to protect manufacturing in this country then we will be dependent on other sources it is as simple as that. Americans have to learn certain things, like how important it is to pay for things that are quality assets, and like instead of eating burgers every night, eating them once a week, and using sustainable and better sources for the meat.

I wouldn't like having to pay a lot for things like tools, but if it meant a better situation we all have to do our part. The Junkie is an accurate image. I agree with you, just think this means we should stay in the room with the door closed for three days lol.

You kind of contradict yourself with your next point...you seem to indicate that our reliance on china is bad, hence one can assume it would solve core problems, and then say it would not solve any core problems.

I suspect this is where we differ in opinions. I think if we did pay more money on infrastructure that benefitted the country we would be better off. Historically we did pay higher prices for better quality products in the past and we were a lot stronger because of it. So we don't need cheap products necessarily. And I described why I think we need subsidies to farming.

I don't think China is a symptom. I think we live in a global economy and that it has created a global marketplace. That is the "disease." It has allowed corporations to emerge as citizens of the world, and sometimes under these conditions, a little protectianism is a good thing.

[billeau2]

The Government has borrowed alot from China, yes.

But that's not really relevant as to why so many private sector companies have moved so much operations (namely manufacturing) over there.

Actually it is not really relevant... period. If I owe you ten dollars, and have the capacity to take that ten dollars, and make it worth one dollar, what does it matter what amount I owe you?

These debts are really a red herring, they are much like a futures contract in reality: If I buy 100 gallons of corn juice, I am not expecting to really take delivery! that corn juice will be used as an option ten times its actual cost to produce and delivery.

The big secret is money is literally not worth the paper it is printed on, its a game, like the street is a game, etc. When Smithfield pork was sold to the Chinese, an asset of value exchanged hands... That was bad, should never have been allowed. We can owe the Chinese all the money in the world, and restructure indefinitely, just like our deficet.

All that really matters is that as a country, we have incredible federal assets, that should not be available for purchase to anyone that does not benefit the people of this country. We should also make sure in times of crisis that assets of value, like real estate are not sold out of desperation to foreign en******. make that money we produce worth something, protecting mortgages, etc. Thats why we need government to subsidize some things.

My point is simple: With a strong government, working for the people, this crisis will not become an opportunity for our country to federally and privately allow foreign multinationals, and citizens to buy off real estate and business for pennies on the dollar. It will not allow corporate take over specialists to sell out american owned businesses.

Otherwise we will all be living in China soon... Im not kidding.

[Sparked_26]

Actually it is not really relevant... period. If I owe you ten dollars, and have the capacity to take that ten dollars, and make it worth one dollar, what does it matter what amount I owe you?

These debts are really a red herring, they are much like a futures contract in reality: If I buy 100 gallons of corn juice, I am not expecting to really take delivery! that corn juice will be used as an option ten times its actual cost to produce and delivery.

The big secret is money is literally not worth the paper it is printed on, its a game, like the street is a game, etc. When Smithfield pork was sold to the Chinese, an asset of value exchanged hands... That was bad, should never have been allowed. We can owe the Chinese all the money in the world, and restructure indefinitely, just like our deficet.

All that really matters is that as a country, we have incredible federal assets, that should not be available for purchase to anyone that does not benefit the people of this country. We should also make sure in times of crisis that assets of value, like real estate are not sold out of desperation to foreign en******. make that money we produce worth something, protecting mortgages, etc. Thats why we need government to subsidize some things.

My point is simple: With a strong government, working for the people, this crisis will not become an opportunity for our country to federally and privately allow foreign multinationals, and citizens to buy off real estate and business for pennies on the dollar. It will not allow corporate take over specialists to sell out american owned businesses.

Otherwise we will all be living in China soon... Im not kidding.

This is a good insight.

Maybe your **********s aren't like our *************. They sold fu.cking everything in the 80's.

I swear if we did create a working vaccine for covid-19 some Tory delegate will have secreted himself in The Donald's arsehole and would be trying to sell it to him.

[billeau2]

This is a good insight.

Maybe your **********s aren't like our *************. They sold fu.cking everything in the 80's.

I swear if we did create a working vaccine for covid-19 some Tory delegate will have secreted himself in The Donald's arsehole and would be trying to sell it to him.

Its what people in the know do, the rich... Cash is king is an expression used to describe how wonderful it is when someone offers cash in a real estate exchange (I believe it came out of real estate).

But how much is this cash ever worth if someone who is rich and has a lot of it already can walk into any bank and borrow a million dollars at low interest? Fundamentally any sufficiently rich person can do so: Buy a bunch of land for example, put it in a trust, and thats that. The banks know that in times like this there is a massive land grab.

What most people cannot do is hold on to their land because we all need cash to survive. Or, we can start to understand that in a crisis like this, which we will be getting more and more of, assets like Shampoo, toilet paper, food generating green houses, well constructed vehicles, etc all have value. If your starving you can maybe buy more with Gold, but at a certain point with enough scarcity, its all about having water, because one cannot drink gold.

I am trying to get my two sons to understand this right now and they love to make fun of me because I am taking a detour and making sure our land in Northern Nevada is set up. Don't feel sorry for me... they make fun of their mother much more lol... They better watch it cause momma can be dangerous. But seriously when someone with limited means thinks that it is worth developing an area for emergencies, with food resources, vehicles, shelter, etc... they are demeaned in class conscious means... called "preppers" portrayed as azz backwards... Yet when a rich person has a retreat, with these resources and a staff to make sure the well is not poisoned? its called a vacation home.

[PACnPBFsuck]

Good can come from bad.

It's part of life.


Sadly, some people look at bad times as a chance to further a political goal.

Good thing that others look at it as an opportunity to fix things and right wrongs.

What are the chances that something positive comes out of this, like I get that Trump is trying with taxing China, but I don't see many changes unless people see the problem, unfortunately, the hate for Trump is way bigger than the hate for China, so as long as the hate for 1 man is higher than an entire country, I don't see the powers that be making any changes.

[MOTHERDUCKER]

What are the chances that something positive comes out of this, like I get that Trump is trying with taxing China, but I don't see many changes unless people see the problem, unfortunately, the hate for Trump is way bigger than the hate for China, so as long as the hate for 1 man is higher than an entire country, I don't see the powers that be making any changes.

I really hope something does.. The censorship.. silencing people who speak out.. putting ******s into reeducation camps. You don't want these people getting more power.. IMO they're a far greater threat then the Soviets were back during the cold war

Trumps tariffs on China hurt them more for sure it's well documented.. it also hurt some areas of American business.. which people did not like.. but everything comes at a cost..

I have absolutely no hope that ***** or any ******** would be tough on China.. but same with the majority of **********s that might come after Trump

[ShoulderRoll]

WTF happened??

Can I get some serious answers, did the government sell us out???

Yep.

The elites planned it and used the promise of cheap labor and big profits to entice businesses and politicians to go along with it.

Businesses got their bigger profits but now our supply chain is heavily dependent on China for everything.

I was looking to buy measuring spoons the other day and struggled to find some that were not made in China.

[alexguiness]

America is not dependant on China...at least not for now.

China's policy is to invest huge amounts on building infrastructure in 3rd World Countries, particularly Africa and Asia.

China has a single ambition - to control the global trade by essentially owning core minerals and energy production, owning the means of extraction and transportation (road / rail / shipping etc) within the nations where this is sourced and then developing a global surveillance network by 2050 through its roll out of IT technology and 5G.

Call it what it is - global domination by a single totalitarian state whose record on human rights is appalling.

If you are afraid, you should be. If you think this is a good conspiracy theory, lets talk again in 2050.

[DreamerUSA]

A couple of issues here lets treat them separately.

I believe that having the capacity to not have farming run by multinational corporations is worth making farming attractive and subsidized. Farming is very tough work, in every way imaginable. I was privaleged to pick tobacco in Southern Maryland while in college...At the time I was 6 foot 180 pounds, a lean mean fighting machine, in shape to the max...working on that farm? kicked me in the azz.

If farming and farmers are not treated like royalty Monsanto will be happy to do the job and outsource the work. Farmers will take on less demanding tasks otherwise, who would not? Having a country with its own food supply imo is like having a house in a rural area with a state of the art generator that can run everything. Ill gladly pay for it.

As far as China and cheap goods? If we do not start to protect manufacturing in this country then we will be dependent on other sources it is as simple as that. Americans have to learn certain things, like how important it is to pay for things that are quality assets, and like instead of eating burgers every night, eating them once a week, and using sustainable and better sources for the meat.

I wouldn't like having to pay a lot for things like tools, but if it meant a better situation we all have to do our part. The Junkie is an accurate image. I agree with you, just think this means we should stay in the room with the door closed for three days lol.

You kind of contradict yourself with your next point...you seem to indicate that our reliance on china is bad, hence one can assume it would solve core problems, and then say it would not solve any core problems.

I suspect this is where we differ in opinions. I think if we did pay more money on infrastructure that benefitted the country we would be better off. Historically we did pay higher prices for better quality products in the past and we were a lot stronger because of it. So we don't need cheap products necessarily. And I described why I think we need subsidies to farming.

I don't think China is a symptom. I think we live in a global economy and that it has created a global marketplace. That is the "disease." It has allowed corporations to emerge as citizens of the world, and sometimes under these conditions, a little protectianism is a good thing.

Again this is an attempt to address the symptom. Why we need China is because we are broke as a joke and living off a credit card that is maxed out. There is absolutely no way for us to maintain our standard of living by cutting China out of the equation and not fundamentally changing our monetary policies. America is fake rich atm.

Now generally speaking, yes the US making and consuming its own goods is a good thing, that is a sign of a healthy economy. But again, you can't just remove China from the equation without some monumental consequences. Which one way or the other its going to happen and needs to happen. The problem is, what you are suggesting just shifts the problem around, it doesn't solve anything. We have to get off this morphine drip of easy currency. No matter if we do it knowingly or go down kicking and screaming like a 3 year old in a candy store who isn't getting their way. Its going to suck giant donkey **** and its going to be a gang **** of donkey **** if we don't change our ways and just cut China out. So no I'm not contradicting myself. Its just a matter of their being no easy way out of this. There is suck and super suck.

China is just the crutch keeping us propped up, they aren't the problem, we are.