Re-examining Robinson?

[Humean]

Yes Robinson could of fought him again, Basora did make the list I put together of opponents Robinson could of met - but the weight was clearly an issue at that time for Robinson who after beating McDaniels next made it a key point of his post-fight statement.

I agree the money was good, but the money was always there with Robinson



Yes Turpin allowed Robinson to coast when he shouldn't of and Robinson picked his spots as he seemed to lack the legs to fight at pace - you're opinion has somewhat caught me off guard, I might have to go back and look it all over.

It''s the first I've ever heard somebody questioning Turpin's integrity in the second contest.

It is a while since I've watched it but i'm pretty sure that besides a slow start Turpin was having similar success to the first fight. Only when Robinson was badly cut did Robinson make a big attempt to end it quickly and he duly succeeded. Also Turpin is unfairly treated as being less than he was, that he only had success against Robinson because Robinson wasn't quite on it. Turpin for a few years was a very effective fighter with a unique and awkward style, not pretty but effective. Unfortunately his career unravelled somewhat, there is a great documentary about Turpin made in the 80s, Turpin was probably never quite in possession of a full deck.

[The Old LefHook]

It is a while since I've watched it but i'm pretty sure that besides a slow start Turpin was having similar success to the first fight.

I don't think so, though I will back off my former statement that his performance was as bad as Douglas's against Holyfield. That was obviously wrong. What happened was I reviewed the fights back to back. The difference between the two was noticeable for Randy's performance.

The most noticeable thing missing was bounce, besides the missing jabs and dips. I mean literal bounce. Turpin was bouncing up and down with energy the first fight. In the second fight he just stood there with no bounce, until it was time to sprint to his corner..

Apparently the New York commission warned Turpin strongly before the fight about Rabbit punches. In London they had warned Robinson about body punches because he was a known kidney puncher and lost a fight on the tour because of an illegal punch. Later, Robinson used his influence to have that fight changed to a no-contest. In London was was afraid to body punch at all, if you notice. In New York he threw them and Turpin threw very few rabbit punches. That could have made a big difference right there.

I still don't think he put up a good fight in NY. Robinson made beautiful adjustments all right but Turpin was flat as can be. With Robinson now sleek, the fight would have been something else if Turpin had come prepared. Robinson hardly got hit with the jab at all.

[The Old LefHook]

I do not like the refereeing in either fight, especially the London affair.

In New York when Robinson has Turpin out on his feet against the ropes, he was quite flagrantly holding Turpin's head with his left mitt and teeing of with his right. You just cannot do that, especially to a man in the condition Turpin was in at that moment. No placement of your opponent's head, no posing him for the next punch, please.

Bad refereeing is not a new thing.

[BattlingNelson]

Good stuff again guys. Nice info I enjoyed reading.


Robinson certainly often tried to get the referee to note certain foul play by an opponent.

On Gene Fullmer:

Here's a story on lack of preparation on Turpins part:

And finally a bit about lack of gameplan for the second fight:

All of this is before fights and as such is up for interpretation.

[The Old LefHook]

Major stardom in the blink of an eye must have scuttled his mentality. More likely than anything else for what I still see as a wide disparity between his two performances in this ongoing assessment is his mental state. Randy couldn't handle it, perhaps. His effort output was much less in the second fight. Robby's adjustments were admittedly brilliant. Not only did he stay outside more, but when it came down to standing there staring at each other, giving the impression he wanted to wait to counter, he would blast off first a lot of times. He showed plenty of respect for the bouncing monster who had not showed up, though.

Remember how early Mike Tyson used to move, and after a while with Donking, he suddenly just stood there instead of doing his motion thing?

To me, a pretty good dose of that appears to have happened to Turpin in the course of two fights within sixty-four days. He needed a lot more activity, the same activity that had won him the first fight. He also needed longer than sixty-four days to take a breather and have a look at his new world. In the rematch Robby was the one with all the hunger, while Turpin's performance suggests he is still dazed from the last go and its consequences.

It is always possible for a boxer to outsmart himself, too, and fight differently because he figures the opponent is preparing for the same thing.

Robinson was able to land more stunning shots this time. He is in and out of attack and counterpunching modes seamlessly. I still think "the other" Turpin showed up.

But I think Joe is right. In a third fight, say five months later, Randy would have been formidable. If the second fight had had a gap of five months instead of two, he might have had his mental set back, providing there is anything to the theory of his losing it.

[Humean]

I'm sure that's the documentary that features his sister and brother which portrays Turpin early existence as a bit bleak with a good amount of violence.

Yeah Randy Turpin was a bit of a violent bully as a child. If i'm remembering correctly it also mentioned that he also had his friend stand up against the garden door and Turpin would engage in knife throwing. Of course when he took his own life he also shot, but failed to kill, one of his daughters.

[The Old LefHook]

Another unusual talent of Robinson's that does not get the coverage of his ability to KO opponents going backwards, was his ability to switch the target of a punch from the head to body or vice versa after it had already been launched. That is Michael Jordan/Roy Jones level of athleticism right there, if you think about it.

Robinson did not make a show of things to modern sensibilities. About twice I have seen Robinson do the patented SRL shoeshine move. Both times it was not for show but to get out of a tight spot.

For Robinson's time, just having the unseen moves he had, and the talent he had, was a big tme show with plenty of showmanship. The public paid a lot of attention to boxing in those days, and they knew boxing and boxers, and considered it a real treat, very similar to the way Jones fans used to and MW fans now do.

[joeandthebums]

Of course when he took his own life he also shot, but failed to kill, one of his daughters.

Did not know any of the details of his death other than suicide - attempted murder of his daughter - his character takes a hit with that one.

[The Old LefHook]

Did not know any of the details of his death other than suicide - attempted murder of his daughter - his character takes a hit with that one.

With that kind of instability no wonder he looked bad in the rematch.

[The Old LefHook]

Robinson did play to the crowd and engage in "grandstand play" as they called it at the time.

Nat Fleischer deemed Robinson's showing against Norman Rubio in March 1942 worthy of an article in which he encouraged Robinson to drop the c.ockiness.

"Speed to burn, hitting power that pounded his man into a state of helplessness, aim that landed punches with sharp-shooting accuracy, blocking that enabled him to pick off punches that looked dangerous - he had all these in addition to contempt for his opponent that went a wee bit too far.

Four times in seven rounds the Harlem speed demon, when cornered, stood practically motionless for almost a minute while his opponent tossed punches from every angle.

...

In order to achieve the greatness of Dixon and Gans, Robinson must put his entire mind on the technique of fighting and forget the gallery."

The footage of Robinson in the last round against Dykes from November 1950 shows he was still able to play to the gallery with his antics.

Robinson may not have exhibited it as Jones did - but I believe if we had more footage and more details, in particular of his keep busy contests - we'd see and hear a lot of him showboating.

Possible Translation of Fleschier: You blacks can't act that way, dont you know it's unbecoming? Be a good boy and don't make white people resent you. I am saying it for your own good and for your boxing. You want to be as good as Dixon and Gans, don't you, two of your people who ended up in the gutter, but knew their places? No, don't showboat like that. You might make more money.

Standing in the corner and making them miss sounds very Mayweatheresque, doesn't it? Contempt for the opponent sounds like Clay or Ali.

From what I have seen he got down to business right away in fights. He was a great artist, but came to knock your head off, and threw hard punches from the opening bell.

I don't belive him in one documentary where he says he never enjoyed fighting. He probably loved it up until he killed Doyle. A long time ago I examined his record, and remember not noticing any signs of his knockout ratio slowing down after the tragedy.