Ranking Floyd Patterson Above Lennox Lewis, Can It Be Justified?

[Kid McCoy]

i have hurt your feelings and you know i have and i am sitting here laughing my **** off... you have no case to put forward for Lewis being ranked greater than Patterson otherwise you would have put up your case for all to see... so because you have no case you have decided to ridicule me the guy who has put up the legit case for Patterson and labelled me as a "Lewis Hater" roflmao.

No i ain't no hater, i just tell it like it is about every fighter and every now and again i get flak from the "nuthuggers" of certain fighters who i tell the truth about and in many cases that fighter is Lennox Lewis... i have never changed in my view of Lewis and never will, i have never changed in my view about any fighter in that i tell it like it happened.. if you truely believe Lewis ranking to be greater than Patterson's ranking then i am cool with that your entitled to your views just like i am entitled to my views, with the difference between us being that i don't get upset and try to ridicule and slate you over your views, i don't attack you over your views and claim you have a dislike for certain fighters... i have always put up my case with valid legit links & statistics just like in this thread for Floyd Patterson and not once has any nuthugger been able to prove my case to be false or untrue and that has always been the case when Lennox Lewis has been discussed on this forum.... Put up or shut up.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks. Ever wondered why you have issues with several people on this forum? This is why. You spin, spin, spin and then sound genuinely surprised to be pulled up on it. If Lewis fought Rademacher and London and didn't face his top contenders for years you'd be foaming at the mouth and you know it. But because we're discussing Lewis you actually tried to defend those fights, just like you defended Bowe trashing his belt and fighting an ancient Michael Dokes. I responded to your criticisms of Lewis and got labeled a nuthugger, which I'm not, yet you've gone all sensitive about being called a hater, which I didn't call you. Lewis is not my favourite fighter and I certainly don't think he's the best heavyweight ever. What I do is defend him against baseless and unfair criticism.

Lewis beat Holyfield. Patterson would not beat the Holyfield Lewis beat. Lewis beat Klitschko. Patterson would not beat the Klitschko Lewis beat. Lewis beat Tua. I'd be amazed if Floyd lasted more than three rounds with Tua. Patterson would not beat the Ruddock Lewis beat. Even though Tyson was well faded by the time Lewis got to him, I'd be surprised if Patterson beat that Tyson either. It's debatable whether Patterson would beat Bruno, since for all his limitations Frank was only ever beaten by huge powerful fighters, and Floyd is not in that mould. Would Patterson get KO'd by McCall and Rahman? Given that both were considerably bigger and stronger than Floyd with powerful right hands and that Floyd was dropped by lesser fighters throughout his career, there's a good chance he would. I don't see him going through Mercer, Briggs, Morrison, Grant or Golota unscathed.

On the other hand Lewis is not going to have much trouble dispatching the likes of London, Harris, Jackson, Rademacher and McNeeley. Liston and Ali would both be hard fights and there's a good chance they'd beat Lewis, however he'd at least do better than Patterson. Ingo would have a puncher's chance but was hardly armour plated himself and would be dwarfed by Lewis. Chuvalo would do what he usually did against top fighters and lose a UD to Lewis. Bonavena would be interesting. Hard to call. I think it would pan out like the Mercer fight. It wouldn't be easy for Lewis.

As it happens I can rate a fighter more objectively than you can. I think Lewis should have fought Byrd and given Vitali a rematch. I can forgive him ditching the WBA belt to fight Grant instead of Ruiz as that was the big money fight HBO were pushing for. For the most part he sought out tough opposition and fought who he could given that Moorer and Bowe were not interested in him and Tyson side-stepped him for years, although various uninspiring showings from Lewis (especially the McCall loss) gave them an excuse to do so. On the subject of title defences, bear in mind that D'Amato's careful matchmaking likely extended Floyd's reign by a few years. Today, the ABCs probably would have stripped him for not meeting Liston.

So yes, Lewis deserves to rate higher than Patterson. He was the best heavy of his era, which Floyd never was, beat better fighters than Floyd beat, would likely handle Patterson's competition easier than Patterson would his, and if they ever met in the ring Lewis would be the heavy favourite.

[The_Demon]

And you have been proven time and again to be nothing but a nut hugging Lewis apologist. You have never contributed anything to any thread but instead run around defending every British fighter that is criticized. You're worthless and should stay in the Limey Lang where you can all sit around and agree about "Ricky Hatton's Greatness."

haha funny post,im a fan of lewis and defend him when he is unfairly critisized,just like i do with any fighter im a fan of

You really shouldnt be so bothered about my view of other posters just because you would like some friends on the forum,but if thats what you want to do then ok

[Tiozzo]

The lady doth protest too much, methinks. Ever wondered why you have issues with several people on this forum? This is why. You spin, spin, spin and then sound genuinely surprised to be pulled up on it. If Lewis fought Rademacher and London and didn't face his top contenders for years you'd be foaming at the mouth and you know it. But because we're discussing Lewis you actually tried to defend those fights, just like you defended Bowe trashing his belt and fighting an ancient Michael Dokes. I responded to your criticisms of Lewis and got labeled a nuthugger, which I'm not, yet you've gone all sensitive about being called a hater, which I didn't call you. Lewis is not my favourite fighter and I certainly don't think he's the best heavyweight ever. What I do is defend him against baseless and unfair criticism.

Lewis beat Holyfield. Patterson would not beat the Holyfield Lewis beat. Lewis beat Klitschko. Patterson would not beat the Klitschko Lewis beat. Lewis beat Tua. I'd be amazed if Floyd lasted more than three rounds with Tua. Patterson would not beat the Ruddock Lewis beat. Even though Tyson was well faded by the time Lewis got to him, I'd be surprised if Patterson beat that Tyson either. It's debatable whether Patterson would beat Bruno, since for all his limitations Frank was only ever beaten by huge powerful fighters, and Floyd is not in that mould. Would Patterson get KO'd by McCall and Rahman? Given that both were considerably bigger and stronger than Floyd with powerful right hands and that Floyd was dropped by lesser fighters throughout his career, there's a good chance he would. I don't see him going through Mercer, Briggs, Morrison, Grant or Golota unscathed.

On the other hand Lewis is not going to have much trouble dispatching the likes of London, Harris, Jackson, Rademacher and McNeeley. Liston and Ali would both be hard fights and there's a good chance they'd beat Lewis, however he'd at least do better than Patterson. Ingo would have a puncher's chance but was hardly armour plated himself and would be dwarfed by Lewis. Chuvalo would do what he usually did against top fighters and lose a UD to Lewis. Bonavena would be interesting. Hard to call. I think it would pan out like the Mercer fight. It wouldn't be easy for Lewis.

As it happens I can rate a fighter more objectively than you can. I think Lewis should have fought Byrd and given Vitali a rematch. I can forgive him ditching the WBA belt to fight Grant instead of Ruiz as that was the big money fight HBO were pushing for. For the most part he sought out tough opposition and fought who he could given that Moorer and Bowe were not interested in him and Tyson side-stepped him for years, although various uninspiring showings from Lewis (especially the McCall loss) gave them an excuse to do so. On the subject of title defences, bear in mind that D'Amato's careful matchmaking likely extended Floyd's reign by a few years. Today, the ABCs probably would have stripped him for not meeting Liston.

So yes, Lewis deserves to rate higher than Patterson. He was the best heavy of his era, which Floyd never was, beat better fighters than Floyd beat, would likely handle Patterson's competition easier than Patterson would his, and if they ever met in the ring Lewis would be the heavy favourite.

I honestly don't see the point of virtually matching Lewis and Patterson against each other's opposition as we all know the nineties had way bigger men in the overall picture

it is not a valid way to determine who should be ranked higher

[sonnyboyx2]

The lady doth protest too much, methinks. Ever wondered why you have issues with several people on this forum? This is why. You spin, spin, spin and then sound genuinely surprised to be pulled up on it. If Lewis fought Rademacher and London and didn't face his top contenders for years you'd be foaming at the mouth and you know it. But because we're discussing Lewis you actually tried to defend those fights, just like you defended Bowe trashing his belt and fighting an ancient Michael Dokes. I responded to your criticisms of Lewis and got labeled a nuthugger, which I'm not, yet you've gone all sensitive about being called a hater, which I didn't call you. Lewis is not my favourite fighter and I certainly don't think he's the best heavyweight ever. What I do is defend him against baseless and unfair criticism.

Lewis beat Holyfield. Patterson would not beat the Holyfield Lewis beat. Lewis beat Klitschko. Patterson would not beat the Klitschko Lewis beat. Lewis beat Tua. I'd be amazed if Floyd lasted more than three rounds with Tua. Patterson would not beat the Ruddock Lewis beat. Even though Tyson was well faded by the time Lewis got to him, I'd be surprised if Patterson beat that Tyson either. It's debatable whether Patterson would beat Bruno, since for all his limitations Frank was only ever beaten by huge powerful fighters, and Floyd is not in that mould. Would Patterson get KO'd by McCall and Rahman? Given that both were considerably bigger and stronger than Floyd with powerful right hands and that Floyd was dropped by lesser fighters throughout his career, there's a good chance he would. I don't see him going through Mercer, Briggs, Morrison, Grant or Golota unscathed.

On the other hand Lewis is not going to have much trouble dispatching the likes of London, Harris, Jackson, Rademacher and McNeeley. Liston and Ali would both be hard fights and there's a good chance they'd beat Lewis, however he'd at least do better than Patterson. Ingo would have a puncher's chance but was hardly armour plated himself and would be dwarfed by Lewis. Chuvalo would do what he usually did against top fighters and lose a UD to Lewis. Bonavena would be interesting. Hard to call. I think it would pan out like the Mercer fight. It wouldn't be easy for Lewis.

As it happens I can rate a fighter more objectively than you can. I think Lewis should have fought Byrd and given Vitali a rematch. I can forgive him ditching the WBA belt to fight Grant instead of Ruiz as that was the big money fight HBO were pushing for. For the most part he sought out tough opposition and fought who he could given that Moorer and Bowe were not interested in him and Tyson side-stepped him for years, although various uninspiring showings from Lewis (especially the McCall loss) gave them an excuse to do so. On the subject of title defences, bear in mind that D'Amato's careful matchmaking likely extended Floyd's reign by a few years. Today, the ABCs probably would have stripped him for not meeting Liston.

So yes, Lewis deserves to rate higher than Patterson. He was the best heavy of his era, which Floyd never was, beat better fighters than Floyd beat, would likely handle Patterson's competition easier than Patterson would his, and if they ever met in the ring Lewis would be the heavy favourite.

What is this load of drivel you have posted.. The thread is "Ranking Floyd Patterson ahead of Lennox Lewis, can it be justified"

i put a valid case forward that yes it can be justified... you have put a case forward saying Lewis beats everyone Patterson beat.... So if i ask the same question of "Ranking Lennox Lewis ahead od Sam Langford, can it be justified"...... then i put the case forward that Lewis would absolutely destroy every single fighter who Sam Langford fought (which in theory he would) then would i be correct in your eyes that Lewis should be ranked as greater than Langford?

[Clegg]

I have to suspect that at least a few of the recent spate of Lewis threads in this section were posted primarily to see Sonnyboyx make increasingly ******er comments with each passing day.

[StarshipTrooper]

Lewis beat Holyfield. Patterson would not beat the Holyfield Lewis beat. Lewis beat Klitschko. Patterson would not beat the Klitschko Lewis beat. Lewis beat Tua. I'd be amazed if Floyd lasted more than three rounds with Tua. Patterson would not beat the Ruddock Lewis beat. Even though Tyson was well faded by the time Lewis got to him, I'd be surprised if Patterson beat that Tyson either. It's debatable whether Patterson would beat Bruno, since for all his limitations Frank was only ever beaten by huge powerful fighters, and Floyd is not in that mould. Would Patterson get KO'd by McCall and Rahman? Given that both were considerably bigger and stronger than Floyd with powerful right hands and that Floyd was dropped by lesser fighters throughout his career, there's a good chance he would. I don't see him going through Mercer, Briggs, Morrison, Grant or Golota unscathed.

I think you're underrating Patterson a bit here.

Poet

[Kid McCoy]

What is this load of drivel you have posted.. The thread is "Ranking Floyd Patterson ahead of Lennox Lewis, can it be justified"

i put a valid case forward that yes it can be justified... you have put a case forward saying Lewis beats everyone Patterson beat.... So if i ask the same question of "Ranking Lennox Lewis ahead od Sam Langford, can it be justified"...... then i put the case forward that Lewis would absolutely destroy every single fighter who Sam Langford fought (which in theory he would) then would i be correct in your eyes that Lewis should be ranked as greater than Langford?

Whereas your case is... Patterson rates over Lewis because Lewis ducked Herbie Hide and John Ruiz. Earlier in this thread you asked whether Lewis would beat Liston or Ali and whether Patterson would lose to McCall or Rahman and now you're having a dig because I did the same? You aren't even consistent. All you did was list who they both faced (including several Floyd never actually beat), then said Floyd is a two time undisputed champion (so is Lewis, by the way) and has more "undisputed" title fights.

What's invalid to say Lewis was beating fighters Patterson wouldn't beat? Marciano was never beaten at all but it's worth considering that heavies in other eras were losing to better heavies than he fought. If you want to use another method then Lewis' best wins over Holyfield, Tua, Klitschko, Ruddock, Mercer, Bruno and his overall performance in the division trumps Patterson's best wins over Moore, Johansson, Chuvalo, Machen and Bonavena and his overall performance. Floyd is overmatched in comparison with many other top heavyweights. He did well to achieve as much as he did.

[sonnyboyx2]

The lady doth protest too much, methinks. Ever wondered why you have issues with several people on this forum? This is why. You spin, spin, spin and then sound genuinely surprised to be pulled up on it. If Lewis fought Rademacher and London and didn't face his top contenders for years you'd be foaming at the mouth and you know it. But because we're discussing Lewis you actually tried to defend those fights, just like you defended Bowe trashing his belt and fighting an ancient Michael Dokes. I responded to your criticisms of Lewis and got labeled a nuthugger, which I'm not, yet you've gone all sensitive about being called a hater, which I didn't call you. Lewis is not my favourite fighter and I certainly don't think he's the best heavyweight ever. What I do is defend him against baseless and unfair criticism.

Lewis beat Holyfield. Patterson would not beat the Holyfield Lewis beat. Lewis beat Klitschko. Patterson would not beat the Klitschko Lewis beat. Lewis beat Tua. I'd be amazed if Floyd lasted more than three rounds with Tua. Patterson would not beat the Ruddock Lewis beat. Even though Tyson was well faded by the time Lewis got to him, I'd be surprised if Patterson beat that Tyson either. It's debatable whether Patterson would beat Bruno, since for all his limitations Frank was only ever beaten by huge powerful fighters, and Floyd is not in that mould. Would Patterson get KO'd by McCall and Rahman? Given that both were considerably bigger and stronger than Floyd with powerful right hands and that Floyd was dropped by lesser fighters throughout his career, there's a good chance he would. I don't see him going through Mercer, Briggs, Morrison, Grant or Golota unscathed.

On the other hand Lewis is not going to have much trouble dispatching the likes of London, Harris, Jackson, Rademacher and McNeeley. Liston and Ali would both be hard fights and there's a good chance they'd beat Lewis, however he'd at least do better than Patterson. Ingo would have a puncher's chance but was hardly armour plated himself and would be dwarfed by Lewis. Chuvalo would do what he usually did against top fighters and lose a UD to Lewis. Bonavena would be interesting. Hard to call. I think it would pan out like the Mercer fight. It wouldn't be easy for Lewis.

As it happens I can rate a fighter more objectively than you can. I think Lewis should have fought Byrd and given Vitali a rematch. I can forgive him ditching the WBA belt to fight Grant instead of Ruiz as that was the big money fight HBO were pushing for. For the most part he sought out tough opposition and fought who he could given that Moorer and Bowe were not interested in him and Tyson side-stepped him for years, although various uninspiring showings from Lewis (especially the McCall loss) gave them an excuse to do so. On the subject of title defences, bear in mind that D'Amato's careful matchmaking likely extended Floyd's reign by a few years. Today, the ABCs probably would have stripped him for not meeting Liston.

So yes, Lewis deserves to rate higher than Patterson. He was the best heavy of his era, which Floyd never was, beat better fighters than Floyd beat, would likely handle Patterson's competition easier than Patterson would his, and if they ever met in the ring Lewis would be the heavy favourite.

i have read some nuthugging in my time on forums but this takes the biscuit..

you say you can --"I can forgive him ditching the WBA belt to fight Grant instead of Ruiz as that was the big money fight HBO were pushing for" --- Lewis never ditched the WBA belt to fight Grant and not Ruiz, Lewis ditched the WBA belt to fight Frans Botha and not Ruiz.. so lets get it correct here and not make up false stories.. Lewis was allowed to keep the belt as long as he then defended next against Ruiz but he instead avoided Ruiz and fought Frans Botha July
15th.



You claim Lewis sought out "Tough opposition".. Holmes called for a fight with Lewis after easily beating Mercer but Lewis refused claiming Holmes was too clever..Corrie Sanders was slated to fight Lewis on a couple of occasions with Lewis baulking, Ruiz, Byrd was avoided, yet you claim he sought out the toughest opposition...

Lennox Lewis did not have to accept any step-aside-money he could easily have said no thankyou and fought for a career highest payday and guaranteed world title fight it's as simple as that... Yet Lewis nuthuggers see the step-a-side money as a sign that Tyson ducked Lewis not the other way that Lewis could have had the huge payday and title fight.

Bowe avoiding Lewis i have discussed with you previously and i agree with the Bowe version on video, maybe if you can put up a Lewis video i may change my mind.

you claim Lewis to be the best heavyweight of his era...what era are you referring to 19?? to 19??

[Kid McCoy]

i have read some nuthugging in my time on forums but this takes the biscuit..

you say you can --"I can forgive him ditching the WBA belt to fight Grant instead of Ruiz as that was the big money fight HBO were pushing for" --- Lewis never ditched the WBA belt to fight Grant and not Ruiz, Lewis ditched the WBA belt to fight Frans Botha and not Ruiz.. so lets get it correct here and not make up false stories.. Lewis was allowed to keep the belt as long as he then defended next against Ruiz but he instead avoided Ruiz and fought Frans Botha July
15th.



You claim Lewis sought out "Tough opposition".. Holmes called for a fight with Lewis after easily beating Mercer but Lewis refused claiming Holmes was too clever..Corrie Sanders was slated to fight Lewis on a couple of occasions with Lewis baulking, Ruiz, Byrd was avoided, yet you claim he sought out the toughest opposition...

Lennox Lewis did not have to accept any step-aside-money he could easily have said no thankyou and fought for a career highest payday and guaranteed world title fight it's as simple as that... Yet Lewis nuthuggers see the step-a-side money as a sign that Tyson ducked Lewis not the other way that Lewis could have had the huge payday and title fight.

Bowe avoiding Lewis i have discussed with you previously and i agree with the Bowe version on video, maybe if you can put up a Lewis video i may change my mind.

you claim Lewis to be the best heavyweight of his era...what era are you referring to 19?? to 19??

No, Lewis lost his WBA belt the moment he stepped in the ring with Grant for not meeting Ruiz. King wanted the belt and within months Holyfield and Ruiz were fighting for the vacant title. Do you have a source for Lewis ducking Holmes? I'm still waiting for evidence of Lewis ducking Roy Jones and Herbie Hide too.



If Tyson wanted Lewis why pay him step-aside money in the first place? He then vacated the belt anyway just to make sure. The money was to shut Lewis up and prevent months of legal wrangling stopping the fights Tyson and King wanted, which didn't include Lewis. And I find it hard to believe you'd accept Lewis' version of events on anything.

[sonnyboyx2]

Whereas your case is... Patterson rates over Lewis because Lewis ducked Herbie Hide and John Ruiz. Earlier in this thread you asked whether Lewis would beat Liston or Ali and whether Patterson would lose to McCall or Rahman and now you're having a dig because I did the same? You aren't even consistent. All you did was list who they both faced (including several Floyd never actually beat), then said Floyd is a two time undisputed champion (so is Lewis, by the way) and has more "undisputed" title fights.

What's invalid to say Lewis was beating fighters Patterson wouldn't beat? Marciano was never beaten at all but it's worth considering that heavies in other eras were losing to better heavies than he fought. If you want to use another method then Lewis' best wins over Holyfield, Tua, Klitschko, Ruddock, Mercer, Bruno and his overall performance in the division trumps Patterson's best wins over Moore, Johansson, Chuvalo, Machen and Bonavena and his overall performance. Floyd is overmatched in comparison with many other top heavyweights. He did well to achieve as much as he did.

Again another load of drivel from you.. your whole case is flawed you say Lewis best wins was over "Holyfield, Tua, Klitschko, Ruddock, Mercer, Bruno and his overall performance in the division trumps Patterson's best wins over Moore, Johansson, Chuvalo, Machen and Bonavena

Holyfield was "Robbed" in his loss to Lewis
Tua weighed 250lb the fattest man to ever fight for the title
Ruddock was "Damaged Goods"
Mercer was robbed against Lewis
Bruno was past it and gave Lewis a boxing lesson
Klitschko was very unfortunate

The above are not my theories but actual facts when looking at the match-up of the two boxers at that time, Ruddock had been brutally hammered by Tyson getting his jaw, cheek-bone & eye-socket smashed, he never landed a single punch on Lewis in the fight because he was Damaged-Goods.. David Tua was grossly overweight weighing as much as 2st heavier than on his best ever night against Ike Ibeabuchi.... Bruno gave Lewis a lesson in jabbing and was on the verge of a KO victory when caught by a wild swinging hook from Lewis as well as Bruno being on the downside of his career, so these are hardly impressive victories for Lewis yet you claim them to be better victories than what Patterson achieved over Bonavena, Machen, Johansson, Moore & Chuvalo which i very much doubt, Johansson, Bonavena and Chuvalo was all at the top of their game as was Jerry Quarry who was fortunate to get a draw against Patterson.. Patterson vs Chuvalo was the 1965 Fight of the Year with Patterson also being voted Fighter of the Year in 59

When was Lewis 2 time undisputed champion?