Opinions on this list of fighters

[Willow The Wisp]

Almost every ethnicity on earth can boast of a boxing heritage of some measure. Those who are under represented are so due mostly to law and politics that discouraged the practice in their regions. ***s came to America in droves near the end of the 19th century and like all other immigrant groups, required their tough guys in order the stake their claim in the new world. Because of the rapid increase in the concepts of leasure time and expendible income for entertainment coincided with this mass immigration, The US (and Great Britain) became the perfect petri dish for the spectacle of boxing to thrive as never before. By the 1920's, commonly regarded as Boxing's greatest decade ever, with the sport thriving on every continent, no single ethnic group fielded more world class fighters than did the ***s, most fighting out of America's massive Eastern metropolitan centers.
The list is good, but only serves to scratch the surface.
Indeed, there's enough to write an entire book about it:




While more widely noted as business people, devotees of the faith and academics, ***s also can claim a storied boxing heritage which predates all of that by a century or more.
Between 1290 and 1657 ***s were expelled from England. After the "Edict of Expulsion" was overturned, ***s began settling back into England faced similar obstacles that immigrants to America would face two centuries later, and here also, there was a need for tough icecutters to pave the way. These, of course came in the form of tough men handy with their fists, and soon enough the ***ish community was feeding into the increasingly popular professional ranks in Britain. Daniel Mendoza was of course the most famous of these, reigning as undisputed champion between 1792 - 1795 and being renowned for his intelligence, scientific skill, graceful movement and superior defense. Mendoza's fame was international, and he became the first *** ever to be granted an audience with an English sovereign. There were many others. The greatest, aside from Mendoza to perfect the craft during the late 18th and early 19th century included the brothers Abraham, Samuel and Izzy Belasco, Barney and Young Barney Aaron, Dutch Sam and Young Dutch Sam, Isaac Bitton and Icky Pig, to name just a few.

[billeau2]

Kid McCoy? Really?

[QueensburyRules]

It's also a shame religious people use their beliefs to push their agendas when the bible contradicts itself often. I like to refer people to this clip when they use religion to support their argument:

- - You use vacuous Hollywood to promote your POV?

Thats the shallow end of the gene pool there.

Every culture known to mankind has religious beliefs that gave the people their first laws. There are no atheist cultures in history until perhaps the Communists were birthed, but even so they kept the religions intact even while keeping them under their boot because they know religious beliefs sustain the people in hard times that Communists have plenty of experience in overseeing.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - You use vacuous Hollywood to promote your POV?

Thats the shallow end of the gene pool there.

Every culture known to mankind has religious beliefs that gave the people their first laws. There are no atheist cultures in history until perhaps the Communists were birthed, but even so they kept the religions intact even while keeping them under their boot because they know religious beliefs sustain the people in hard times that Communists have plenty of experience in overseeing.

Agree most of the way but ii seems antiquity had a few successful ********ic/atheistic societies.

As much as Hollywood gets it wrong I believe so too does the historian.

There was as much agnosticism as there is today; e.g. The Sphinx was a tourist trap more than it was a religious shrine.

[Willow The Wisp]

Kid McCoy? Really?

I thought the same thing, huge miss.

[Willie Pep 229]

Kid McCoy? Really?

What I just read suggests he went full tilt bozo killing four people in total. Wonder if the source was any good.

[billeau2]

Agree most of the way but ii seems antiquity had a few successful ********ic/atheistic societies.

As much as Hollywood gets it wrong I believe so too does the historian.

There was as much agnosticism as there is today; e.g. The Sphinx was a tourist trap more than it was a religious shrine.

Great Post... There is an effect in history... I don't know if it even has a name, but contemporary culture has a hard time envisioning similar prosiac attitudes that were in the past. Would it suprise historians to know Confucius, the Buddha, and Plato among others did not believe in spirits? The assumption always is that in the past people were in some way deluded unlike the present... same attitude the size queens have regarding heavyweights in this day and age.

India has the most vast and comprehensive philosophical culture that ever graced this Earth... Every major trend of philosophical discourse in the West was done in India and then some... quite a bit of "some" in addition. Among those traditions are very religious outlooks, mixes with Islamic and Christian doctrines, and sheer atheist doctrines, like the Charvaka school of materialism.

Stereotypes keep people ignorant with their two pennies of truth, to a nickel of deceit. A story will illustrate this fallacy regarding what we think of as truth, people's attitudes, and reality...

When I was in graduate school a Sanskrit scholar and lecturer gave a talk. He was an Indian man, I think a Jain by birth. It became apparent that at this lecture were a lot of students from the school who studied Indian Religion... "Indian Religion" in fact being Indian thought because unlike the West, there was never a schism between religion and philosophy in India. They had the usual smiles that betook the fact they usually had money, could afford the leisure of living anyway prescribed, were better than the rest of us who had to work to go to school, and who were there with no preconceived notions....

Those faces soon turned as sour as bad milk when it was discovered that the lecturer: was a materialist Atheist, and was a first class ****** who looked for those very faces to turn into upside down smiles... And so it went until inevitably as will happen one of the little sheep took the bait and questioned the lecturer with the admonition so expected: "India is a spiritual culture yada yada yada....." And then the sheep were slaughtered as this first class ****** had made a career of working into that very stereotype assumption, no less than helio Grace would find a way to fight on the ground...

So to be clear? India does have a flourishing community of thinkers devoted to epistemology that is based on the Atheist doctrines... kind of a trick question really... As big as the country is it has eveything right? But stereotypes had brought a false cake! A Soufle that had nothing but air and a cover! And so it was... an unpleasant evening spent with two groups of de****ables... But the lesson is there for those who understand.

[QueensburyRules]

Agree most of the way but ii seems antiquity had a few successful ********ic/atheistic societies.

As much as Hollywood gets it wrong I believe so too does the historian.

There was as much agnosticism as there is today; e.g. The Sphinx was a tourist trap more than it was a religious shrine.

- - Sphinx was an architectural statement of power, period.

Certainly mankind has a long history of questioning authority, religious or otherwise. You gave no atheistic examples as I did about a culture arising thousands of years in religious beliefs before Marxism became atheism through Communism.

I've seen no atheist foundations in history. Marxism as a 19th century philosophy came and communism and alloyed atheism followed. Those are developments where religions became less important, but again, "World built was on Spiritual and Religious beliefs." Gonna have to have at least 10,000 years of world wide atheism to match proto religious beliefs that provided Mankind's first laws and organizational structure.

At the current rate of devolution, that may well happen when we pass the tipping point barreling our way quicker than our slowing wits may dectect.

[billeau2]

- - Sphinx was an architectural statement of power, period.

Certainly mankind has a long history of questioning authority, religious or otherwise. You gave no atheistic examples as I did about a culture arising thousands of years in religious beliefs before Marxism became atheism through Communism.

I've seen no atheist foundations in history. Marxism as a 19th century philosophy came and communism and alloyed atheism followed. Those are developments where religions became less important, but again, "World built was on Spiritual and Religious beliefs." Gonna have to have at least 10,000 years of world wide atheism to match proto religious beliefs that provided Mankind's first laws and organizational structure.

At the current rate of devolution, that may well happen when we pass the tipping point barreling our way quicker than our slowing wits may dectect.

I doubt history would record such a minority view... though it does exist in India with the heterodox schools, most notably the Charvaka Materialists. But that would be picking... In general your point is correct, though one wonders if it because of the way History was recorded.

[QueensburyRules]

I doubt history would record such a minority view... though it does exist in India with the heterodox schools, most notably the Charvaka Materialists. But that would be picking... In general your point is correct, though one wonders if it because of the way History was recorded.

- - Most of recorded history by necessity turns on big events of economy, political organization, war, invention, and in particular after coming out of the dark ages, philosophy, both scientific and abstract.

It is true the earliest history is the earliest "writings" of Sumerians that largely records bushels, weights, and sales totals of trade goods along with heirarcal lineages of rulers. Not the least of which is Gilgamesh who engaged in the first recorded one on one fight in the history of the world with Enkidu, the great natural manbeast who ran with the antelopes and drank in the lakes with Lions.

And with the little people of the day recorded along with miscellaneous dogs being moved from the Crushed Wedding House to the gates of Uruk following the fight in an unofficial ring of citizens. The first recorded fight in history was a draw with both combatants leaning on each other to keep from collapsing.

Such was surely far more important in the history of mankind than any boxing match of commoners.