Tunney v Dempsey 2 - Was Dempsey robbed

[Willie Pep 229]

A fighters job is to follow the refs count, that's all I'm saying. It's not his job to figure out what the time keepers is or isn't doing. I whole heartedly believe Tunney would have beaten that count whenever he wanted. You've said it's corruption and a cheat by Barry. I dont see that. Could have been a simple mistake as these rules were not widely used before this fight, I believe. To call it anything else takes away from Tunney's gameness, and this is coming from someone who doesnt relish Tunney's heavyweight career the same as many others.

No, to call it something else does not diminish Tunney. You ain't shutting me up with that cheap ploy.

You keep bringing up Tunney. He is not the issue.

Dave Barry was Billy Gibson's pick. (Billy Gibson is one of only four people mentioned in Arnold Rothstein's will. His ex-wife, his mistress, Monk Eastman, and Billy Gibson. Abe Attell didn't get in, but Gibson did. What does that suggest to you?)

Dempsey's camp balked at Barry as referee and Gibson threatened to walk away from the fight. So Dempsey accepted Barry.

Dempsey's people were suspicious of Dave Barry before the fight. Al Capone warned Dempsey that 'The Fixer' Arnold Rothstein was actually calling the shots but Dempsey refused to let Capone 'help' him.

Many years later (1959) Abe Attell would tell a young reporter named Ferdie Pacheco: "What people don't know about the Tunney-Dempsey fights, is that it was the Jews against the Italians. The Jews won."

[travestyny]

Oh for fvvcks sake. Here we go again with the conspiracy theories acting as a veil to hide Dempsey from accountability, as per usual.


In the grand scheme of things, if overwhelmingly we believe Tunney gets up whenever he wants (as far as I've seen, this is the prevailing opinion), and he goes on to whoop Dempsey's ass as he did, what does Dave Barry matter? You are indeed diminishing Tunney by going into this whole worthless song and dance.

I guess the entire commission who denied the appeal was also bought off by the whims of a Dempsey fan's imagination. So goes the story.

[JAB5239]

No, to call it something else does not diminish Tunney. You ain't shutting me up with that cheap ploy.

You keep bringing up Tunney. He is not the issue.

Dave Barry was Billy Gibson's pick. (Billy Gibson is one of only four people mentioned in Arnold Rothstein's will. His ex-wife, his mistress, Monk Eastman, and Billy Gibson. Abe Attell didn't get in, but Gibson did. What does that suggest to you?)

Dempsey's camp balked at Barry as referee and Gibson threatened to walk away from the fight. So Dempsey accepted Barry.

Dempsey's people were suspicious of Dave Barry before the fight. Al Capone warned Dempsey that 'The Fixer' Arnold Rothstein was actually calling the shots but Dempsey refused to let Capone 'help' him.

Many years later (1959) Abe Attell would tell a young reporter named Ferdie Pacheco: "What people don't know about the Tunney-Dempsey fights, is that it was the Jews against the Italians. The Jews won."

This is your proof? Seriously? People say a lot of things. I'll tell you what my grandmother use to say. Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. With all due respect, you have no proof whatsoever. Youve got wild unconfirmed stories from a century ago. Dempsey not wantimg Barry proves nothing. Barry would have to be pretty quick thinking to intentionally pull something like that off in an event of that magnitude. Consider the timing. We can argue a lot of things, but you have nothing but conjecture on this one. You've made me rethink my stances on a few things I can remember. This one, youre gonna have to do better than this my friend.

[Willie Pep 229]

This is your proof? Seriously? People say a lot of things. I'll tell you what my grandmother use to say. Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. With all due respect, you have no proof whatsoever. Youve got wild unconfirmed stories from a century ago. Dempsey not wantimg Barry proves nothing. Barry would have to be pretty quick thinking to intentionally pull something like that off in an event of that magnitude. Consider the timing. We can argue a lot of things, but you have nothing but conjecture on this one. You've made me rethink my stances on a few things I can remember. This one, youre gonna have to do better than this my friend.

Let's watch Barry count both knock downs.

When Tunney goes down Barry looks at Dempsey and holds back his count.

Barry then fails to pick up the time keepers count.

In the 8th round Dempsey goes down to one knee and bounces up. Barry does not look to see where Tunney is, who has not retreated one step.

Barry counts "one" on Dempsey so fast he beats the time keeper.

A referee should always show a consistent count protocol. Dave Barry does not. He handles the two knock downs differently.

Is video enough proof or is that conjecture?

Watch the two knock downs and tell me you see impartiality in Barry's counting protocol. I don't.

[travestyny]

It's the same arguments all over again.

Dempsey makes the mistake of trying to go into his own corner, which was actually walking up on the downed fighter. Tunney gallops away from Dempsey when he downs him, and Dempsey pops up in an instant.

[travestyny]

Dempsey's camp balked at Barry as referee and Gibson threatened to walk away from the fight. So Dempsey accepted Barry.

Dempsey's people were suspicious of Dave Barry before the fight.

I'm seeing lots of evidence that the referee was purposely selected with very short notice. When was it that Dempsey's camp balked at Barry as ref and were susp-icious of him? And Gibson threatened to walk away when? The day of the fight? If he was chosen on fight day, that doesn't give a lot of time for this to be true.

Commissioner of the Tunney/Dempsey Long Count Fight/Death Threat From Al Capone

Prehn was a member of the Illinois State Athletic Commission (later elected Chairman on January 3, 1928) and also Ring Commissioner for The Long Count Fight between Tunney and Dempsey at Soldier Field (September 22, 1927). Prior to the Tunney/Dempsey boxing event (which had 120,000 in attendance and is the largest attendance ever for a sporting event outside motor racing, and soccer), gangsters affiliated with Al Capone tried to bribe Prehn with $10,000 in return for Prehn appointing a “pro Dempsey” referee for the fight. Prehn refused the bribe and then instructed several of the potential referees (including Capone’s preferred referee) to sit at ringside and be ready to referee the fight. Then, only after the fighters had entered the ring, Prehn chose Dave Barry as the referee (not the referee that was demanded by Al Capone). Then, as a result of Dempsey losing the fight (and the controversy over the referee’s long count), Al Capone’s gangsters told Prehn he would be murdered although inexplicably no attempts were ever made on Prehn’s life. (Prehn kept a pistol under his pillow many years afterward.)

Someone please ask this dude to provide the details of Dempsey's distrust of Barry before the fight and Gibson threatening to walk. He has me on ignore because I'm always catching him in some shlt that clearly doesn't make sense or is just dishonest BS.

[solidman]

The referee was bent in my opinion, but i still think Tunney would have risen in time.

[QueensburyRules]

This is your proof? Seriously? People say a lot of things. I'll tell you what my grandmother use to say. Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. With all due respect, you have no proof whatsoever. Youve got wild unconfirmed stories from a century ago. Dempsey not wantimg Barry proves nothing. Barry would have to be pretty quick thinking to intentionally pull something like that off in an event of that magnitude. Consider the timing. We can argue a lot of things, but you have nothing but conjecture on this one. You've made me rethink my stances on a few things I can remember. This one, youre gonna have to do better than this my friend.

- - Been sampling U own Mickeys again, eh?

When Pep barks, need to learn to jump back and leave the Big Dogs alone.

[JAB5239]

Let's watch Barry count both knock downs.

When Tunney goes down Barry looks at Dempsey and holds back his count.

Barry then fails to pick up the time keepers count.

In the 8th round Dempsey goes down to one knee and bounces up. Barry does not look to see where Tunney is, who has not retreated one step.

Barry counts "one" on Dempsey so fast he beats the time keeper.

A referee should always show a consistent count protocol. Dave Barry does not. He handles the two knock downs differently.

Is video enough proof or is that conjecture?

Watch the two knock downs and tell me you see impartiality in Barry's counting protocol. I don't.

Dempsey was up so fast the ref hardly had time to do anything. And Tunney was right in front of Barry who I'm sure knew exactly where he was. You keep talking about the time keeper. Wasn't the original film silent? I don't recall them mentioning the time keeper.

provide the details of Dempsey's distrust of Barry before the fight and Gibson threatening to walk.

[JAB5239]

- - Been sampling U own Mickeys again, eh?

When Pep barks, need to learn to jump back and leave the Big Dogs alone.

you're an idiot!!