Bivol & Beterbiev

[DeeMoney]

kinda true, if you talk about globalization everyone agrees but they still think the old dudes were better. I dunno man, sometimes I question if even the greatest ATGs were just in small pools of talent. I mean if Wilder only had the American talent pool to worry about he'd look great too and who knows who would have finally beat him. Some of these dudes only fought white dudes. A full career of nothing but American and sometimes British white dudes? Sounds easy to me.

I might could be swayed to take Beterbeiv over Tunney. Maybe, I dunno. Just saying I see why y'all get frustrated with us really.

I agree with your premise, but I think that the popularity of the sport in the past also has to be taken into account too.
Granted, this is a very Western-centric viewpoint, but I feel as if boxing was relatively so much more popular of a sport 100, 75, even up to 50 years ago. This meant that it attracted the top athletes. So while a Tunney may have had a smaller talent pool to defeat (based on global population), more of that talent was focusing on boxing so you were consistently getting the better athletes of the bunch.

[ShoulderRoll]

“You cannot become a good fighter without fighting other good fighters. You can't. And there are not that many good fighters today to allow you to become a great fighter. That says it all. You also have to have a lot of fights. How could you be a great fighter just fighting 20, 30, 40 fights? You've got to have 70, 80, 100 fights.”—Lightweight Legend, Carlos Ortiz

[Marchegiano]

I agree with your premise, but I think that the popularity of the sport in the past also has to be taken into account too.
Granted, this is a very Western-centric viewpoint, but I feel as if boxing was relatively so much more popular of a sport 100, 75, even up to 50 years ago. This meant that it attracted the top athletes. So while a Tunney may have had a smaller talent pool to defeat (based on global population), more of that talent was focusing on boxing so you were consistently getting the better athletes of the bunch.

That's fair, but what is also fair is it is a lot easier to build a fighter in a smaller pool and make fights people are interested in seeing in a smaller pool. I think the colorline is a perfect example of that. Dempsey, still, enjoys the luxury of fighting the same men only because he can't be forced to fight a black man. Fighting men who just lost to a black man. Today, that does not sell, it did when Dempsey defended against Miske though. To cheer and applause and nice sales. And still Dempsey can only be held by that standard. Fans still accept that excuse for that timeframe.

So even if we have viable regions we won't necessarily push fighters into fighting the best available or even making good fights. We will make excuses for their fights until the end of time instead.

What I'm saying is what you claimed is logical but I do not think it is the truth.

[Anomalocaris]

That's fair, but what is also fair is it is a lot easier to build a fighter in a smaller pool and make fights people are interested in seeing in a smaller pool. I think the colorline is a perfect example of that. Dempsey, still, enjoys the luxury of fighting the same men only because he can't be forced to fight a black man. Fighting men who just lost to a black man. Today, that does not sell, it did when Dempsey defended against Miske though. To cheer and applause and nice sales. And still Dempsey can only be held by that standard. Fans still accept that excuse for that timeframe.

So even if we have viable regions we won't necessarily push fighters into fighting the best available or even making good fights. We will make excuses for their fights until the end of time instead.

What I'm saying is what you claimed is logical but I do not think it is the truth.

I think Dempsey is the most overrated heavy in history - even against Willard he looked like some drunk bloke in a pub carpark.

So wide open for a quality fighter to exploit.

Oh and his 'title' reign was a joke.

[JAB5239]

I think Dempsey is the most overrated heavy in history - even against Willard he looked like some drunk bloke in a pub carpark.

So wide open for a quality fighter to exploit.

Oh and his 'title' reign was a joke.

I also think he overrated. If we leave out historical significance his resume just doesn't add up. Jmo.

[Willie Pep 229]

I also think he overrated. If we leave out historical significance his resume just doesn't add up. Jmo.

Wrong forum, no?

[QueensburyRules]

I think Dempsey is the most overrated heavy in history - even against Willard he looked like some drunk bloke in a pub carpark.

So wide open for a quality fighter to exploit.

Oh and his 'title' reign was a joke.

- - Your Joke completely reorganized boxing with record purses that resulted boxing being sanctioned in most of the states as boxing entered the modern age where it as a bigger sport than any sport other than track and field and baseball both of whom are better organized than boxing...

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Your Joke completely reorganized boxing with record purses that resulted boxing being sanctioned in most of the states as boxing entered the modern age where it as a bigger sport than any sport other than track and field and baseball both of whom are better organized than boxing...

But that is mere "historical significance." Why would you bring that up on a history forum?

Now get back to analyzing resumes and calling fighters unworthy.

[mattdonnellon]

I think when fans reminisce about the days when fighters had hundreds of fights compared to today, they are viewing this from an American perspective. In the USA good amateurs torn pro as soon as they show promise. A top amateur may have hundreds of contests, with a significant number against competitive elite opponents or in the WSB which benefit a fighter far, far more than been fed a bunch of stiffs. This is not to diminish what the likes of Rosenbloom, Greb, Langford, Norfolk, Moore, Loughran achieved by learning on the hoof, both routes have produced great fighters.

[ShoulderRoll]

I think when fans reminisce about the days when fighters had hundreds of fights compared to today, they are viewing this from an American perspective. In the USA good amateurs torn pro as soon as they show promise. A top amateur may have hundreds of contests, with a significant number against competitive elite opponents or in the WSB which benefit a fighter far, far more than been fed a bunch of stiffs. This is not to diminish what the likes of Rosenbloom, Greb, Langford, Norfolk, Moore, Loughran achieved by learning on the hoof, both routes have produced great fighters.

Amateur bouts are much shorter and the scoring emphasis is different, body snatchers are at a disadvantage for example.

Having hundreds of theee rounders isn’t the same as having hundreds of pro fights.