Was Hopkins An ATG?

[Willow The Wisp]

I've never been a fan of Monzon and I'm called crazy for considering him overrated as well. Not to say he wasn't a good fighter, but his first 80 fights were all against Argentineans of questionable pedigree, and his best win was Griffith who was best as a welter. Griffith was already starting to fade by the time he fought Monzon. Napoles was washed up. If we look at Valdez, he never fought or beat a great fighter in his career, his best win was Briscoe. In a head to head fight I still might favor Monzon over Hopkins at 160.

I disagree. But.....I'm going to let you live. I am magnanimous.

[Slugfester]

I said I would factor in his so called accomplishments. This here is a who beats who list. His accomplishments are meager to me. So he will not climb much higher.

I will even remove Benvenuti, bringing Hopkins to 18 in my who beats who.

[GhostofDempsey]

Hopkins beat a bunch of small guys and B fighters. Even the smaller fighters were washed up. He tried to get out of fights by pretending to be fouled Even if I take Toney and Nunn out, Hop is only about #19.

Thanks to Hambo for the list.

So what that Jones spent little time at middleweight? He beat Hopkins there didn't he, and fairly easily. Then left him in peace to vulture belts.

That is one of the things that made me lose total respect for Hopkins, the antics he pulled trying to get a DQ or point deductions against Jones, Calzaghe and his pathetic "shoulder injury" he claimed when Dawson pushed him down. He took a full 5 minutes to recover from a soft low blow against Calzaghe. Against Jones in the rematch he acted like he was shot in the head from a light rabbit punch and rolled around like a pathetic clown looking for a DQ. I won't even comment about his racism because it doesn't have anything to do with his overall skills or resume. He was always a dirty and boring fighter.

[billeau2]

Does anybody here think Hopkins was an all time great? Does anybody here think he was not?

If you watch Hopkins fight against Jermaine Taylor, it could easily be argued he won both those fights. Then consider all the great fighters he beat and we can "Archie Moore " him lol. What I mean is this: Some fighters don't look as strong in any one division while others hold down a division.... in rare cases like Ray Robinson, or Tunney, a fighter can be an ATG candidate in a few divisions. So... we can say things like "Nobody beats Roy Jones at 168," or, "No one touches Hagler at Middle Weight"

I don't think we can say this about Hopkins, anymore than we can say there is a division where Archie Moore, or Gene Tunney, or even Hank Armstrong historically ruled the roost. Yet Hopkins like the other fighters mentioned was obviously a tremendous fighter and yes, an ATG fighter IMO. So: can I compare Hopkins to ...oh lets say Carlos Monzon on a list of the greatest Middle weights? Tricky. Thats where we perhaps need a new class of ATG fighters who defy a weight category but were undoubtedly ATG category.

[Willie Pep 229]

That is one of the things that made me lose total respect for Hopkins, the antics he pulled trying to get a DQ or point deductions against Jones, Calzaghe and his pathetic "shoulder injury" he claimed when Dawson pushed him down. He took a full 5 minutes to recover from a soft low blow against Calzaghe. Against Jones in the rematch he acted like he was shot in the head from a light rabbit punch and rolled around like a pathetic clown looking for a DQ. I won't even comment about his racism because it doesn't have anything to do with his overall skills or resume. He was always a dirty and boring fighter.

I rewatched the sixth round because of your remark.

Agreed, if he was actually looking for the DQ.

I do feel Hoppkins needed to make sure the punch was viewed as an egregious act and not merely a foul blow. That brought in some acting

Jones knew what he was doing, the punch wasn't the completion of an exchange.

Had he (Hoppkins) gone the tough guy route, finished out the 14 seconds, and then, while walking back to the corner holding the back of his head, waved and yelled at the referee "Hey, watch him."

That may not have been enough of a complaint to wake up the ref, or make Jones back off; there might have been a second blow.

If looking for the DQ --> wrong!

Making sure the refree took the foul seriously necessitated a bit of acting.

P.S. Jones had the classic guilty smile as he knew Hoppkins was flopping but his punch had been so egregious he couldn't say anything.

[QueensburyRules]

Lol can't argue with someone who hates that much

- - I luvs watchin' Poppy squalin'.

[markusmod]

You're answering a question with a demand.

How could you possibly rank those 3 fighters above Hopkins at Middleweight?

None of the 3 are even close to ATG Middleweights.

Iron Dan in the house!