How Did Tyson Fury succeed where Muhammad Ali failed?

[max baer]

- - When silly meets The Truth, The Truth shall prevail.

like this truth

[ShoulderRoll]

Certainly agree about the media and its willingness to jump at the slightest hint of a negotiation. In 1922 alone the newspapers would have believe the Dempsey-Wills fight was 'almost' a sure thing three different times.

I don't know the details and like you suggest the details are often unknowable. But I feel certain the Saudi would not have given a tinker's damn what a USA court had to say.

Fury's promoter Bob Arum would have cared what a US court had to say. The WBC would have cared as well. As all these entities do lots of business in America. And both boxers contractually agreed to be bound by arbitration so going back on that opens the door to lawsuits.

When both Fury and Joshua were free and clear of obligations, though? And able to have a fight this month? What happened? The record will show that Fury made a fair offer but Joshua didn't want it and will end up fighting Dillian Whyte next instead.

[max baer]

Fury's promoter Bob Arum would have cared what a US court had to say. The WBC would have cared as well. As all these entities do lots of business in America. And both boxers contractually agreed to be bound by arbitration so going back on that opens the door to lawsuits.

When both Fury and Joshua were free and clear of obligations, though? And able to have a fight this month? What happened? The record will show that Fury made a fair offer but Joshua didn't want it and will end up fighting Dillian Whyte next instead.

Well said. I totally agree

[QueensburyRules]

Fury's promoter Bob Arum would have cared what a US court had to say. The WBC would have cared as well. As all these entities do lots of business in America. And both boxers contractually agreed to be bound by arbitration so going back on that opens the door to lawsuits.

When both Fury and Joshua were free and clear of obligations, though? And able to have a fight this month? What happened? The record will show that Fury made a fair offer but Joshua didn't want it and will end up fighting Dillian Whyte next instead.

- - Record shows flubber consistently shyte his dummy since backing out of the Wlad rematch. He a mob fighter now and U a mob fan.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Record shows flubber consistently shyte his dummy since backing out of the Wlad rematch. He a mob fighter now and U a mob fan.

Got to agree with you there. Fury diminished his greatest/legacy when he supposedly fell apart emotionally and didn't rematch Wald.

The Wald-Fury decision was too close (and boring) to have let the issue end there.

Everyone on this forum likes to use the word 'duck' so I will as well --> Fury ducked the Wald rematch.

Him going suddenly crazy is one thing, but for him to go as suddenly uncrazy when the Wald threat passed, is suspect.

[ShoulderRoll]

Got to agree with you there. Fury diminished his greatest/legacy when he supposedly fell apart emotionally and didn't rematch Wald.

The Wald-Fury decision was too close (and boring) to have let the issue end there.

Everyone on this forum likes to use the word 'duck' so I will as well --> Fury ducked the Wald rematch.

Him going suddenly crazy is one thing, but for him to go as suddenly uncrazy when the Wald threat passed, is suspect.

He beat Klitschko fair and square and mercifully ushered in the end of that era.

He has that scalp and it's a huge plus to his legacy. Not a negative.

[Willie Pep 229]

He beat Klitschko fair and square and mercifully ushered in the end of that era.

He has that scalp and it's a huge plus to his legacy. Not a negative.

Victory yes, absence of rematch, no. Just an opinion.

[Marchegiano]

You can't force everyone to agree on what makes a legacy. I personally don't see the Wlad win as a big deal. Wlad had been struggling with lesser fighters, was older than the Crypt Keeper, and the fight itself was boring.

[Willow The Wisp]

I agree that the term "duck" is almost always a silly and ****** accusation. Fighters at top level are about as frightened by any fight as a plumber is of pipes. It's what they do for a living and they all have great self-belief. Those who've shown the confidence to skip over the low pay stuff like MMA and Kickboxing have supreme confidence in their abilities against those in the high pay ranks (boxing) of natural fight-Athletes.
I don't agree that Fury vs. Klitschko was boring or that Klitschko was finished, but rather, I see it as a good, clean passing of the torch, the half dozen cheap, easy-strip alphabelts notwithstanding. Same way history sees it.
Anyone making light of Fury's mental illness is a good bet to suffering from it a bit themselves. If it were an issue with his heart or his liver we'd all give him a free pass and lament his great misfortune; but when it's brain chemistry that is at issue we believe that he should have "willed himself " past it. Not smart thinking, the brain being a far more complicated organ. Anyway, No version of Vitali or Wladimir Klitschko was ever going to beat Fury IMO. Too slick for their likes. (Looking at Fury-Whyte, perhaps too powerful as well).
I want to see Fury stick around to feed more into his legacy, and I think that he has to, if he ever hopes to be mentioned as an equal to Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and (Wlad) Klitschko without alot of push back.
I still have high hopes that before this now mature era is finished, that Fury, Wilder, Joshua, Usyk and Ruiz (and Joyce?) will do more business together, to finish the great battles that Fury and Wilder (the two best of that group) had started, sorting it all out as each of the other all-time great ones mentioned had done.

[max baer]

I agree that the term "duck" is almost always a silly and ****** accusation. Fighters at top level are about as frightened by any fight as a plumber is of pipes. It's what they do for a living and they all have great self-belief. Those who've shown the confidence to skip over the low pay stuff like MMA and Kickboxing have supreme confidence in their abilities against those in the high pay ranks (boxing) of natural fight-Athletes.
I don't agree that Fury vs. Klitschko was boring or that Klitschko was finished, but rather, I see it as a good, clean passing of the torch, the half dozen cheap, easy-strip alphabelts notwithstanding. Same way history sees it.
Anyone making light of Fury's mental illness is a good bet to suffering from it a bit themselves. If it were an issue with his heart or his liver we'd all give him a free pass and lament his great misfortune; but when it's brain chemistry that is at issue we believe that he should have "willed himself " past it. Not smart thinking, the brain being a far more complicated organ. Anyway, No version of Vitali or Wladimir Klitschko was ever going to beat Fury IMO. Too slick for their likes. (Looking at Fury-Whyte, perhaps too powerful as well).
I want to see Fury stick around to feed more into his legacy, and I think that he has to, if he ever hopes to be mentioned as an equal to Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and (Wlad) Klitschko without alot of push back.
I still have high hopes that before this now mature era is finished, that Fury, Wilder, Joshua, Usyk and Ruiz (and Joyce?) will do more business together, to finish the great battles that Fury and Wilder (the two best of that group) had started, sorting it all out as each of the other all-time great ones mentioned had done.

i like you willow the wisp like i used to love the cartoon of the same name in 1985 after school!!
Fury went to germany to outpoint a superchamp. I think "you're gonna do WHAT??"
But he did that. You know we talk about fighters can i compare great fighters to great composers like elgar and holst. Fury is like mozart and joshua is like salieri. If you watch the movie amedeous. Fury mocks joshua who so wants to be great and is so upset with envy. Some fighters are fantastic like rocky and joe frazier through sheer hard work and others are geniuses like ali, tyson and fury. You watch it and see how everyone is tuning in or going around their mates house to watch on saturday and everyone is talking about the fight. Fury tyson and ali were those types. klitschko had fights so dull they were not pay per view in the uk they were not even on a main channel they were on channel 5 an obscure nothingy channel. noone cared so boring.
The geniuses not only have the boxing gift but they know how to get attention and stir up the worlds interest.
Fury is at his best when he is light hearted and funny and mocking the other guy. I read the press and each time he says something funny the newspapers love reporting it like when he was gonna introduce wank lotion the papers love that stuff gareth davies and steve bunce love all that stuff so do people.

i like fury's style of boxing but I so wish he would just finish usek or ruiz and bomb them out in a round or two. I'd love that. Too many people on here go on about it fluffy duster or whatever so I would love him to do a tom schwarz on one of them and blow them away. I would f****ng love that just to shut up people saying he cant knock out well. please excuse this post a bit I am just going to bed a bit wasted. but do you get my point at all?