How Did Tyson Fury succeed where Muhammad Ali failed?

[QueensburyRules]

I suppose. (??). But the great news is that the Fury/Wilder/Usyk/Ruiz/Joshua era isn't over yet, and the next salvo will iron some of these questions out. I'm very keen to see if Wilder fares better than a soul snatching KO loss and a bicycle race nod over a grossly obese version of Ruiz. With Martin, Parker, Takam, etc all now in the stepping stone category; it's to Ruiz alone to represent Joshua's best work; so Wilder is presented with a chance to fully seal the deal as the 2nd best of the newest era of heavyweight boxing. And again, "Ducking" in boxing is a charge against management; never against the fighter. Personally, I think we might have witnessed a true beating had Hearn-Joshua courageously pushed forward with a "let him take whatever he wants" fight against Miller. But after that punk shove, they were plotting a way out. ....in the same spirit of humorous flippancy.

- - Big Baby couldn't even make scratch line and had to go into shamed hiding for years. No other than AJ could make that happen as he also did with Blubber and Deyonce.

You saying Blubber and Deyonce don't control their careers says it all. Eddie works for AJ who makes the decisions who to fight. Eddie just sets up the King's ransom purses and venue.

Blubber and Deyonce fight who they're told to fight for peanuts, the difference between AJ and them.

[ShoulderRoll]

- - Big Baby couldn't even make scratch line and had to go into shamed hiding for years. No other than AJ could make that happen as he also did with Blubber and Deyonce.

And Andy Ruiz replaced the big steroid factory. Then ruined AJ's American debut, leaving him mentally scarred and fragile.

[QueensburyRules]

And Andy Ruiz replaced the big steroid factory. Then ruined AJ's American debut, leaving him mentally scarred and fragile.

- - So mentally scarred the Gypsy Soprano ducked the split/$150 mil Saudi purse to fight Deyonce who near KOed him again for peanuts, your gift that keeps on giving!

[ShoulderRoll]

- - So mentally scarred the Gypsy Soprano ducked the split/$150 mil Saudi purse to fight Deyonce who near KOed him again for peanuts, your gift that keeps on giving!

An arbitrator ruled that, by contract, Fury had to fight Wilder again. That's not a duck.

A duck is what Joshua just did by not accepting Fury's offer to fight in December. When both men were free and clear to do it.

[QueensburyRules]

An arbitrator ruled that, by contract, Fury had to fight Wilder again. That's not a duck.

A duck is what Joshua just did by not accepting Fury's offer to fight in December. When both men were free and clear to do it.

- - Geez, does U even follow boxing???

1. Deyonce never activated his rematch clause. There were countdowns on various fight sites.

2. Deyonce filed for arbitration in Cornflakia who never lets the law get in the way of important decisions.

3. Arum after being presented with the 75 mil Saudi guarantee elected to take arbitration to prevent Deyonce from filing step aside $$$.

4. They lost the Cornflakia specific arbitration that was never binding on a bout held in Saudi Arabia, ie still ducking the riches of AJ for peanuts.

5. AJ fought an alltime great series with Usyk who beside Fat Andy the only heavy willing to engage the AJ riches. See Tommy Fury and Hasim Rahman Jr fighting for peanuts after ducking Jake Paul riches for another comparison.

6. AJ don't jump through hoops for Flubber/bankrupt allegedy peanut purses. That forces Flubber into fighting Whyte whom AJ demolished years past, and now Chisora now circling the drain who Whyte emphatically beat twice in great fights.

It's like U was born yesterday again today with no concepts of reality other than your squallin' repeating birth every new day.

[Willie Pep 229]

An arbitrator ruled that, by contract, Fury had to fight Wilder again. That's not a duck.

A duck is what Joshua just did by not accepting Fury's offer to fight in December. When both men were free and clear to do it.

I seriously doubt the Arabs would have cared what an American arbitrator ruled.

That fight was there if Fury wanted it. The Arabs would have produced plenty of step aside money if that was really at issue.

Look at the manner in which they bought away the stars from the PGA.

[Willow The Wisp]

I seriously doubt the Arabs would have cared what an American arbitrator ruled.

That fight was there if Fury wanted it. The Arabs would have produced plenty of step aside money if that was really at issue.

Look at the manner in which they bought away the stars from the PGA.

It's just really difficult to know the details of all these negotiations that are on the table, then not; all filtered through a media eagerly reporting any time somebody so much as takes a piss. Anybody making claims that they've got the inside scoop is to be looked upon with doubt. Bottom line with the Fury-Wilder-Joshua triple crown race to unification is that Wilder and Fury stepped up to the plate and fought to a stand still, manned up for two rematches, and Joshua became a paper tiger in a perpetual state of losing fights he should have won, beginning an incrimental and disappointing drop down the ladder. The latter represents the only things which we know to be facts. These require no reinterpretation. Now, Let's hope that Joshua can mount an effective enough comeback to again be seen as a pick em' opponent for Fury and/or Wilder, like he once was. There are still issues to be settled, legacies to be constructed and many millions to be generated by what I regard as the best generation of heavyweights assembled in 45 years.

[max baer]

You know the background.....

Between 03-23-67 and 10-26-70, "The Greatest", Muhammad Ali was forced to temporarily retire from boxing and stood on the shelf for 3 years, 7 months and 3 days, or 1,313 days.
When he left he was the undisputed Heavyweight champion of the world and undefeated in 29 professional fights.

Fast forward to modern times, and while the particulars change, we have something similar occur.

Between 11-29-15 and 06-09-18, The Gypsy King", Tyson Fury was forced to temporarily retire from boxing and stood on the shelf for 2 years, 6 months, 11 days, or 923 days.
When he left he was the universally recognized and linial Heavyweight champion of the world and undefeated in 25 professional fights.

When at long last Ali was allowed to again ply his chosen trade, he returned to action and took on two of the best top 10 ranked contenders in the world in Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena. One sided wins over two of the best fighters he'd ever fought instantly re established Ali as the 1st or 2nd best heavyweight on the planet during a great period in heavyweight history; and he was prepared to face the new dominant force on the scene, Joe Frazier, 26-0-0.
Ali was 29 years of age.


After seeking medical help for several serious emotional health ailments and miraculously getting himself back in condition, at long last Fury was declaired fit to fight again, he returned to action and took on two mediocre talents good enough only to assist Fury regain his timing, if not his fighting prowess. One sided wins in those tune-ups was enough, however, to re establish Fury as the 1st or 2nd or 3rd best heavyweight on the planet during yet another great period in heavyweight history; and he somehow was left feeling prepared to face the new dominant force on the scene, Deontay Wilder, 40-0-0.
Fury was 30.



Now Wilder and Frazier both receive criticism here and so too, do Ali and Fury for that matter; but anyone who knows enough about the fight game to have earned a discussion on the subject will readily admit that fighters too much better than those four are found only in the comic books and in Hong Kong choreography.

Enough said that both Ali and Fury were really going for it. Strait to the title - Most dangerious opponents that the mother earth could provide to them.

If there was a difference between their respective challenges, it was surly that Ali took out two top guns for his preparation. Fury went in just about cold.

And yet........

Ali got Dumped and lost a classic.
Fury got dumped twice, but he salvaged a draw by winning more rounds in another classic.
Both, of course would go on to beat their dance partners twice apiece later on, but it would never be easy. Seldom is easy when greats go head to head.

Both Frazier and Wilder would prove still dominant among their peers for a while longer.
Both Ali and Fury would go on to dominance in their respective eras as champions, but for their BIG title reclamation comback nights, how was Fury able to do better than "The Greatest", if only slightly? And with so much less real good opponent/real fight preparation?

It's to ponder when determining what greatness is.

you wrote this very well. Fury differed from Ali in one respect, Ali believed all his hype but Fury was consumed by doubt and dangerously low self esteem. he comes from poor beginnings and there is a tragedy among travellers of suicide.

read this about it. I once right at the very start was not kind about fury as i was bias against travellers. After learning about Fury I found a really kind gentle man who really felt terrible about himself and yet i thought he was so talented. I wrote to him telling him this and asking for forgiveness for being what really was racist against travellers because i was judging all travellers as the same and not all as diverse as everyone other race or group. Many travllers lack self esteem as they are looked upon as worthless by wider society and yet Fury is a really kind man who gets easily hurt like I do and even though he is a boxing genius he really felt little value of himself like many travllers feel about themselves. Traditional travellers should not be confused with what english people term "pikies" as there is a clear difference and people mix them together. Gypsies have an ancient tradition that they are immensly proud of.
But what makes fury the goat I feel is that from as far back as he could walk he's been practicing boxing and he never gave up learning how to box in all styles and how to beat each style so noone could find a way to beat him. I came from a poor background too and felt a kindred spirit and wanted to help as there is noone else who i would rather see as champion.
I say all this because i know fury can always go deeper and deeper into his resilience and inner will then the other guy. He can twist and change the styles and pace and switch from orthodox to southpaw and hold and put his weight on the guy to wear him out and get the better of any man in 12 rounds but when he gains the esteem and pride in himself he really is the greatest.

I know him and have done since he was a kid and he respects my ideas and advice and I would never write a single sentence badly about him because I find him like two peas from a pod. He always reads my writing and I always keep up to date with his career. He really is a quiet gentleman and that is why his wife stays with him no matter what because he is a genuine nice guy. The times i've met him he never looks at people like "yeah you want some do ya" or anything like that he treats people with dignity and never throws his weight around. He always is kind to you and you know he could kill you in a few seconds but he never rubs your face in it he shows you dignity. All the bravado is just the entertainer side of him during fight build ups.
Ali was great and lennox lewis too but I think Fury would figure out a way to win. He knows when to maul them to make them feel weak and then tease them and then land on them and these things in different stages to confuse them. He is also a master of the body shots and Ali if you watch him only threw headshots he never ever seemed to throw body shots. This is why he is the best. One last thing, when a boxer knocks out another the trend in people is to say Yeah but they were always crap. yet right up to the knockout they were great. the guys now are just a great as they were in the sixties or eighties or any era.
Your thread starter is really good, thanks

[Willie Pep 229]

It's just really difficult to know the details of all these negotiations that are on the table, then not; all filtered through a media eagerly reporting any time somebody so much as takes a piss. Anybody making claims that they've got the inside scoop is to be looked upon with doubt. Bottom line with the Fury-Wilder-Joshua triple crown race to unification is that Wilder and Fury stepped up to the plate and fought to a stand still, manned up for two rematches, and Joshua became a paper tiger in a perpetual state of losing fights he should have won, beginning an incrimental and disappointing drop down the ladder. The latter represents the only things which we know to be facts. These require no reinterpretation. Now, Let's hope that Joshua can mount an effective enough comeback to again be seen as a pick em' opponent for Fury and/or Wilder, like he once was. There are still issues to be settled, legacies to be constructed and many millions to be generated by what I regard as the best generation of heavyweights assembled in 45 years.

Certainly agree about the media and its willingness to jump at the slightest hint of a negotiation. In 1922 alone the newspapers would have believe the Dempsey-Wills fight was 'almost' a sure thing three different times.

I don't know the details and like you suggest the details are often unknowable. But I feel certain the Saudi would not have given a tinker's damn what a USA court had to say.

[QueensburyRules]

you wrote this very well. Fury differed from Ali in one respect, Ali believed all his hype but Fury was consumed by doubt and dangerously low self esteem. he comes from poor beginnings and there is a tragedy among travellers of suicide.

read this about it. I once right at the very start was not kind about fury as i was bias against travellers. After learning about Fury I found a really kind gentle man who really felt terrible about himself and yet i thought he was so talented. I wrote to him telling him this and asking for forgiveness for being what really was racist against travellers because i was judging all travellers as the same and not all as diverse as everyone other race or group. Many travllers lack self esteem as they are looked upon as worthless by wider society and yet Fury is a really kind man who gets easily hurt like I do and even though he is a boxing genius he really felt little value of himself like many travllers feel about themselves. Traditional travellers should not be confused with what english people term "pikies" as there is a clear difference and people mix them together. Gypsies have an ancient tradition that they are immensly proud of.
But what makes fury the goat I feel is that from as far back as he could walk he's been practicing boxing and he never gave up learning how to box in all styles and how to beat each style so noone could find a way to beat him. I came from a poor background too and felt a kindred spirit and wanted to help as there is noone else who i would rather see as champion.
I say all this because i know fury can always go deeper and deeper into his resilience and inner will then the other guy. He can twist and change the styles and pace and switch from orthodox to southpaw and hold and put his weight on the guy to wear him out and get the better of any man in 12 rounds but when he gains the esteem and pride in himself he really is the greatest.

I know him and have done since he was a kid and he respects my ideas and advice and I would never write a single sentence badly about him because I find him like two peas from a pod. He always reads my writing and I always keep up to date with his career. He really is a quiet gentleman and that is why his wife stays with him no matter what because he is a genuine nice guy. The times i've met him he never looks at people like "yeah you want some do ya" or anything like that he treats people with dignity and never throws his weight around. He always is kind to you and you know he could kill you in a few seconds but he never rubs your face in it he shows you dignity. All the bravado is just the entertainer side of him during fight build ups.
Ali was great and lennox lewis too but I think Fury would figure out a way to win. He knows when to maul them to make them feel weak and then tease them and then land on them and these things in different stages to confuse them. He is also a master of the body shots and Ali if you watch him only threw headshots he never ever seemed to throw body shots. This is why he is the best. One last thing, when a boxer knocks out another the trend in people is to say Yeah but they were always crap. yet right up to the knockout they were great. the guys now are just a great as they were in the sixties or eighties or any era.
Your thread starter is really good, thanks

- - Don't give the Gypsy Souffle any ideas.