Ike Williams v Carlos Ortiz 15rds?

[Ivich]

Ike Williams126-24- 4 5' 8" 68" reach

Versus

Carlos Ortiz 68-1-1 5' 7" 70" reach

Who is your pick and why?

[The Old LefHook]

I don't know enough about these two to even venture a guess. Interested in what others will say.

[Ivich]

I don't know enough about these two to even venture a guess. Interested in what others will say.

Both top ten lightweights ,imo.I'd make Williams even money with Duran he was that good but handicapped by being managed by Blinky Palermo.
Ortiz was a terrific boxer puncher,but something of a party animal.

[Willie Pep 229]

Both top ten lightweights ,imo.I'd make Williams even money with Duran he was that good but handicapped by being managed by Blinky Palermo.
Ortiz was a terrific boxer puncher,but something of a party animal.

How was Williams 'handicapped' by being manged by Blinky Palermo?

Robbed blind! Absolutely! One can only say that Blinky eventually got what he deserved, a 20 year sentence.

But Palmero was connected to Carbo and Carbo for a while controlled the fight game, i.e. The IBC.

I suspect there is a good chance Williams got the right fights at the right time. Career wise Palermo/Carbo should have been a blessing not a handicap. (That is until you're not useful anymore, then the abuse would surely come.)

It would be interesting to look at his timeline.

But if Palmero and Carbo were in the process of picking his pocket for damn near every dollar the man ever made, why wouldn't they push his talent the best they could. Push him right to a title fight and then lots of defenses. Why hold him back?

I realize it's twisted logic, the man was robbed blind. But probably not a career handicap.

[markusmod]

How was Williams 'handicapped' by being manged by Blinky Palermo?

Robbed blind! Absolutely! One can only say that Blinky eventually got what he deserved, a 20 year sentence.

But Palmero was connected to Carbo and Carbo for a while controlled the fight game, i.e. The IBC.

I suspect there is a good chance Williams got the right fights at the right time. Career wise Palermo/Carbo should have been a blessing not a handicap. (That is until you're not useful anymore, then the abuse would surely come.)

It would be interesting to look at his timeline.

But if Palmero and Carbo were in the process of picking his pocket for damn near every dollar the man ever made, why wouldn't they push his talent the best they could. Push him right to a title fight and then lots of defenses. Why hold him back?

I realize it's twisted logic, the man was robbed blind. But probably not a career handicap.

Pep brings up some interesting points, as usual.

[Ivich]

How was Williams 'handicapped' by being manged by Blinky Palermo?

Robbed blind! Absolutely! One can only say that Blinky eventually got what he deserved, a 20 year sentence.

But Palmero was connected to Carbo and Carbo for a while controlled the fight game, i.e. The IBC.

I suspect there is a good chance Williams got the right fights at the right time. Career wise Palermo/Carbo should have been a blessing not a handicap. (That is until you're not useful anymore, then the abuse would surely come.)

It would be interesting to look at his timeline.

But if Palmero and Carbo were in the process of picking his pocket for damn near every dollar the man ever made, why wouldn't they push his talent the best they could. Push him right to a title fight and then lots of defenses. Why hold him back?

I realize it's twisted logic, the man was robbed blind. But probably not a career handicap.

How? He was not paid for 2 fights ,received only a fraction of his purse for another and carried a couple of opponents for bets.
Palermo also borrowed $10,000 from Williams and never paid it back.

Williams got $33,400 for fighting Beau Jack in Philadelphia he never received a penny for the fight.

Ike got $33,500 for fighting Jesse Flores in NY he never saw a penny of that.
Palermo pocketed both purses and Williams still paid taxes on them both!

Williams had 2 tough challengers in Paddy Demarco and Terry Young,they would have done big numbers.Williams couldn't get them into a ring to defend his crown.
If Palermo could get him the fights he wanted why was he fighting welter weights?
I'd call that a handicap myself!

[The D3vil]

I don't know, but I do want to say that Ike Williams admits that he was forced to lose by the mafia at times, so he may not have had that many legitimate losses.

[Ivich]

I don't know, but I do want to say that Ike Williams admits that he was forced to lose by the mafia at times, so he may not have had that many legitimate losses.

In a taped interview Williams says Palermo approached him to throw fights but he never did.

[The D3vil]

In a taped interview Williams says Palermo approached him to throw fights but he never did.

I thought he said he was forced to.