Comments Thread For: Bob Arum on Usyk-Dubois Controversy: It Was a Low Blow; Seemed to Me Dubois Quit

[crimsonfalcon07]

A few points here.

1. There's a lot of people making noise about the belt line. That's irrelevant. The rules state a low blow is defined by the waist line, not the belt line, which is anything below the navel. Shorts can be worn low or high. Usyk's navel was at the top of the belt, meaning anything on the belt was illegal.



2. Body shot KO's are basically always from liver or kidney shots, and if you have watched enough boxing, you know they're characterized by a delayed reaction. See Ryan Garcia, or watch some highlights of Inoue or Canelo. There's a brief pause, and then they take a knee. The only shots down there that drop a guy instantly like Usyk went down are shots to the junk. That's an easy way to tell why they're going down, and if it was legal or not. And you can hear the shot make contact with the cup.

3. Dubois knew it was low. He didn't complain about the call at the time it was made, and had several shots before and after that were obviously low. If you think it's a legal shot, you complain to the ref when the champ is on the ground. And you certainly press the action after they're hurt. Dubois didn't do anything to capitalize. He lost almost every other minute of the fight.

4. The ref was overboard about telling Usyk to take more time. He says he's ok, you ask if he's sure, then you let him go on.

5. Dubois quit. He let himself get KOed by a short jab, and was on his feet by 9.

6. Dubois landed a few flush shots with his right to the chin of Usyk, who took them just fine. Dubois is a quitter, it looks like, but he can punch, so I'd say that Usyk's got a good chin.

This whole "controversy" is entirely because people don't know the rules. If Tim Bradley didn't spend so much time blabbing about the belt and actually referenced the navel/waist, this wouldn't be an issue at all. He was clearly biased, and just a couple rounds before the end, was saying he was impressed by the mental fortitude of Dubois, and talking up every tiny thing Dubois did, as if Usyk wasn't out landing Dubois by a huge margin. Then, of course, Dubois quit, and gave Usyk his first heavyweight stoppage.

[elegua]

Yeah another low blow to your senile brain...

[elegua]

A few points here.

1. There's a lot of people making noise about the belt line. That's irrelevant. The rules state a low blow is defined by the waist line, not the belt line, which is anything below the navel. Shorts can be worn low or high. Usyk's navel was at the top of the belt, meaning anything on the belt was illegal.



2. Body shot KO's are basically always from liver or kidney shots, and if you have watched enough boxing, you know they're characterized by a delayed reaction. See Ryan Garcia, or watch some highlights of Inoue or Canelo. There's a brief pause, and then they take a knee. The only shots down there that drop a guy instantly like Usyk went down are shots to the junk. That's an easy way to tell why they're going down, and if it was legal or not. And you can hear the shot make contact with the cup.

3. Dubois knew it was low. He didn't complain about the call at the time it was made, and had several shots before and after that were obviously low. If you think it's a legal shot, you complain to the ref when the champ is on the ground. And you certainly press the action after they're hurt. Dubois didn't do anything to capitalize. He lost almost every other minute of the fight.

4. The ref was overboard about telling Usyk to take more time. He says he's ok, you ask if he's sure, then you let him go on.

5. Dubois quit. He let himself get KOed by a short jab, and was on his feet by 9.

6. Dubois landed a few flush shots with his right to the chin of Usyk, who took them just fine. Dubois is a quitter, it looks like, but he can punch, so I'd say that Usyk's got a good chin.

This whole "controversy" is entirely because people don't know the rules. If Tim Bradley didn't spend so much time blabbing about the belt and actually referenced the navel/waist, this wouldn't be an issue at all. He was clearly biased, and just a couple rounds before the end, was saying he was impressed by the mental fortitude of Dubois, and talking up every tiny thing Dubois did, as if Usyk wasn't out landing Dubois by a huge margin. Then, of course, Dubois quit, and gave Usyk his first heavyweight stoppage.

It seems this picture has been altered. Nowadays everything even the elections, the gender, the age and more are altered very easy. What to expect in this situation? In the replay you can see more than clear the punch was on the belt that in fact was too hight...

[crimsonfalcon07]

It seems this picture has been altered. Nowadays everything even the elections, the gender, the age and more are altered very easy. What to expect in this situation? In the replay you can see more than clear the punch was on the belt that in fact was too hight...

Nope, that's just another of the low blows, straight from Dan Rafael. Point is that Dubois was making a habit of it. I've got a screenshot of the relevant moment, and the entire glove is below the navel. It doesn't matter where the belt is, because that's not the metric, and there's nothing wrong with people wearing their shorts wherever is comfortable for them. It's about if it's below the waist, defined by the navel. The belt was below the navel, so anything on the belt is illegal. That's just fact.


Glove on the belt (illegal) and all knuckles clearly below the belt (illegal).

The only controversy here is how many people don't understand the rules. If you don't get this, you're more invested in hating on Usyk than a fan of the sweet science. Learn the rules.

[Toffee]

Nope, that's just another of the low blows, straight from Dan Rafael. Point is that Dubois was making a habit of it. I've got a screenshot of the relevant moment, and the entire glove is below the navel. It doesn't matter where the belt is, because that's not the metric, and there's nothing wrong with people wearing their shorts wherever is comfortable for them. It's about if it's below the waist, defined by the navel. The belt was below the navel, so anything on the belt is illegal. That's just fact.


Glove on the belt (illegal) and all knuckles clearly below the belt (illegal).

The only controversy here is how many people don't understand the rules. If you don't get this, you're more invested in hating on Usyk than a fan of the sweet science. Learn the rules.

The entire glove is not below the navel in that image.

Below the nipple, yes. Below the ribs, yes. Below the navel, no.

That absolutely looks like a body shot.

[crimsonfalcon07]

The entire glove is not below the navel in that image.

Below the nipple, yes. Below the ribs, yes. Below the navel, no.

That absolutely looks like a body shot.

It's on the belt, and the belt was below the navel. Not sure why this is so hard to understand. The knuckles are all fully below the waist. My su****ion is that people get hung up on the belt line, which isn't relevant to the rules at all. It's supposed to be a useful visual reference point, but it should be obvious why it's not the determining factor.

[Toffee]

It's on the belt, and the belt was below the navel. Not sure why this is so hard to understand. The knuckles are all fully below the waist. My su****ion is that people get hung up on the belt line, which isn't relevant to the rules at all. It's supposed to be a useful visual reference point, but it should be obvious why it's not the determining factor.

It's very easy to understand. There was a comment that the entire glove was below the navel - I simply stated that isn't correct. That punch is **** on the navel. His shorts have ridden up at the front with the blow. And the navel is on the body, or at least mine is.

But I'm not trying to really discuss that. I'm not into the video review of the last few millimetres of Usyk's lower body. I'm against the idea that imaginary lines and millimetres either side of them define this sport. It's a punch to the stomach. Everyone's who's ever hit or been hit knows that's a punch to the stomach.

What's next? Imaginary lines defining the separation between the front and the back of the head? Someone no doubt will tell me where that is in theory, but we know what a punch to the back of the head looks like. There's some interpretation required, but we know it when we see it. Just as we do with a body shot. You can't codify boxing completely.

The low blow rule wasn't defined to protect the navel. Nor a couple of centimetres below it.

Usyk was smart. Dubois is a heavy hitter and was targeting the body. Usyk was appealing practically every body shot. He then got absolutely nailed by one and the ref called it low - so he took the time he was entitled to and that helped him. No real problem with any of that. It's all in the game.

But to my mind it was a body shot. A really good one.

[crimsonfalcon07]

It's very easy to understand. There was a comment that the entire glove was below the navel - I simply stated that isn't correct. That punch is **** on the navel. His shorts have ridden up at the front with the blow. And the navel is on the body, or at least mine is.

But I'm not trying to really discuss that. I'm not into the video review of the last few millimetres of Usyk's lower body. I'm against the idea that imaginary lines and millimetres either side of them define this sport. It's a punch to the stomach. Everyone's who's ever hit or been hit knows that's a punch to the stomach.

What's next? Imaginary lines defining the separation between the front and the back of the head? Someone no doubt will tell me where that is in theory, but we know what a punch to the back of the head looks like. There's some interpretation required, but we know it when we see it. Just as we do with a body shot. You can't codify boxing completely.

The low blow rule wasn't defined to protect the navel. Nor a couple of centimetres below it.

Usyk was smart. Dubois is a heavy hitter and was targeting the body. Usyk was appealing practically every body shot. He then got absolutely nailed by one and the ref called it low - so he took the time he was entitled to and that helped him. No real problem with any of that. It's all in the game.

But to my mind it was a body shot. A really good one.

It's not an imaginary line. It's a very real tangible separation, and one that's specifically defined in the rules. Your personal feelings about it have no bearing about whether it was legal or not. The facts are that the rules define low blows as blows below the waistline defined by the position of the navel, and that the punch was below that point, and therefore illegal. Nothing about your "feelings" changes that fact. The low blow rule prohibits strikes to ANYTHING below the line. That could include the hips, for instance. Was it specifically designed to protect the hips? No, because that's a ****** argument. It's black and white. If it's below the navel, it's illegal. Period. Full stop. The degree to which that's true doesn't matter either. That's like saying "I only shot him in the face a little." Still illegal.

[billeau2]

If Arum thinks it’s a low blow he can’t say the ref gave him to long to recover. A fighter gets 5 minutes on their terms if it’s called he didn’t even take that , Arum how long you been in boxing again ? Smh

Satanic Bob... Always has an agenda, never really just answers a question.

[kafkod]

Nope, that's just another of the low blows, straight from Dan Rafael. Point is that Dubois was making a habit of it. I've got a screenshot of the relevant moment, and the entire glove is below the navel. It doesn't matter where the belt is, because that's not the metric, and there's nothing wrong with people wearing their shorts wherever is comfortable for them. It's about if it's below the waist, defined by the navel. The belt was below the navel, so anything on the belt is illegal. That's just fact.


Glove on the belt (illegal) and all knuckles clearly below the belt (illegal).

The only controversy here is how many people don't understand the rules. If you don't get this, you're more invested in hating on Usyk than a fan of the sweet science. Learn the rules.

The entire glove is not below the navel in that image.

Below the nipple, yes. Below the ribs, yes. Below the navel, no.

That absolutely looks like a body shot.

That's not an image of the punch actually landing. It's an image of Dubois' glove sliding up Usyk's body after the punch landed, moving his cup and trunks up with it.

Check out this analysis by Hatmanstrikesback: