The Myth Of Milk?

[luv4boxing84]

seems like a bunch of opinions and unscientific comparisons that are less like actually studies and more like hey doc would you say china a county composed of smaller people on average then the usa has less hip fractures then the usa?

they are doctors though but then again i can ask a priest if god exists but that dosnt mean hes right even though he knows everything possible about god.

So your telling me that the scientists who compared milk drinking and non milk drinking people all over the world, were unscientific. Even if you discredit the china study, how about he harvard one about american populations? How about the one in australia that again looked at milk and non milk drinkers in their own population?

People like you argue just to argue. Looking at this evidence it would be fairly obvious to anyone. And this was by no means the only evidence. I could post all day on this stuff. All these population studies say the exact same thing. Among people who drink more milk, we find more osteoporosis. People who drink less milk, have less cases of osteoporosis. This is really straight forward stuff.

[Spartacus Sully]

So your telling me that the scientists who compared milk drinking and non milk drinking people all over the world, were unscientific. Even if you discredit the china study, how about he harvard one about american populations? How about the one in australia that again looked at milk and non milk drinkers in their own population?

People like you argue just to argue. Looking at this evidence it would be fairly obvious to anyone. And this was by no means the only evidence. I could post all day on this stuff. All these population studies say the exact same thing. Among people who drink more milk, we find more osteoporosis. People who drink less milk, have less cases of osteoporosis. This is really straight forward stuff.

just as i can post actual evidence and not just opinions that state that a vitamin d or calcium deficiency can cause brittle bones and that milk contains vitamin d and calcium

perhaps too much might cause problems just as too much of anything can cause problems but there is nothing wrong with the amount of milk required to get your daily intake of calcium and vitamin d

[Trices]

Ok, I don't know what sort of crazy stuff you got in your milk but here in Sweden I've never heard of a normal consumption of milk being bad in any way. Regarding the "cancer rates are higher in countries consuming dairy products", I'm almost certain that has nothing to do with the milk and more to do with all the other unhealthy stuff being consumed in those countries, seeing as it's the rich countries who can afford the dairy products the most. Also, you should drink fat milk, as it hasn't been pasteurized as much. And why is pasteurization bad? Well, during the process of pasteurization, you destroy a lot of healthy stuff. I cba explaining it all, so just google pasteurization+vitamine loss and read for yourself.

Lastly, read what has been established about milk after practice:

Previous studies have examined the response of muscle protein to resistance exercise and nutrient ingestion. Net muscle protein synthesis results from the combination of resistance exercise and amino acid intake. No study has examined the response of muscle protein to ingestion of protein in the context of a food. This study was designed to determine the response of net muscle protein balance following resistance exercise to ingestion of nutrients as components of milk.

Three groups of volunteers ingested one of three milk drinks each: 237 g of fat-free milk (FM), 237 g of whole milk (WM), and 393 g of fat-free milk isocaloric with the WM (IM). Milk was ingested 1 h following a leg resistance exercise routine. Net muscle protein balance was determined by measuring amino acid balance across the leg.

Arterial concentrations of representative amino acids increased in response to milk ingestion. Threonine balance and phenylalanine balance were both > 0 following milk ingestion. Net amino acid uptake for threonine was 2.8-fold greater (P < 0.05) for WM than for FM. Mean uptake of phenylalanine was 80 and 85% greater for WM and IM, respectively, than for FM, but not statistically different. Threonine uptake relative to ingested was significantly (P < 0.05) higher for WM (21 +/- 6%) than FM (11 +/- 5%), but not IM (12 +/- 3%). Mean phenylalanine uptake/ingested also was greatest for WM, but not significantly.

Ingestion of milk following resistance exercise results in phenylalanine and threonine uptake, representative of net muscle protein synthesis. These results suggest that whole milk may have increased utilization of available amino acids for protein synthesis.

Kevin Tipton, Robert Wolfe; Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006 Apr;38(4):667-74. Milk Ingestion Stimulates Net Muscle Protein Synthesis following Resistance Exercise.

[luv4boxing84]

All right. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. The problem is not too much vitamin d or calcium or hormones (although they arn't good). It is the fact that there is not nearly enough vitamin d and calcium in milk to offset the acid protein it contains. You drink milk, the blood becomes acid and the body fights this by taking more calcium out of the bones to fix the PH levels in the blood.

Here are a few quotes and tid bits:

"The dairy folks, ever since the 1920s, have been enormously successful in cultivating an environment within virtually all segments of our society—from research and education to public relations and politics—to have us believing that cow's milk and its products are manna from heaven. ... Make no mistake about it; the dairy industry has been virtually in total control of any and all public health information that ever rises to the level of public scrutiny."
Dr. T. Colin Campbell

"Milk, it now seems clear, is not the solution to poor bone density. To the contrary, it's part of the problem."
Dr. Charles Attwood

"The association between the intake of animal protein and fracture rates appears to be as strong as the association between cigarette smoking and lung cancer."
Dr. T. Colin Campbell

In one study, funded by the National Dairy Council, a group of postmenopausal women were given three 8-ounce glasses of skim milk every day for two years, and their bones were compared to those of a control group of women not given the milk. The dairy group consumed 1,400 mg of calcium per day and lost bone at twice the rate of the control group. According to the researchers, "this may have been due to the average 30 percent increase in protein intake during milk supplementation. ... The adverse effect of increases in protein intake on calcium balance has been reported from several laboratories, including our own" (they then cite 10 other studies). Says McDougall, "Needless to say, this finding did not reach the six o'clock news." This is one study that the dairy industry won't be repeating any time soon.

After looking at 34 published studies in 16 countries, researchers at Yale University found that the countries with the highest rates of osteoporosis—including the United States, Sweden, and Finland—were those in which people consumed the most meat, milk, and other animal foods. This study also showed that African-Americans, who consume, on average, more than 1,000 mg of calcium per day, are nine times more likely to experience hip fractures than are South African blacks, whose daily calcium intake is only about 196 mg. Says McDougall, "On a nation-by-nation basis, people who consume the most calcium have the weakest bones and the highest rates of osteoporosis. ... Only in thoseplaces where calcium and protein are eaten in relatively high quan****** does a deficiency of bone calcium exist, due to an excess of animal protein."

I can't make this any clearer. Just look up the science behind it.

[Spartacus Sully]

All right. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. The problem is not too much vitamin d or calcium or hormones (although they arn't good). It is the fact that there is not nearly enough vitamin d and calcium in milk to offset the acid protein it contains. You drink milk, the blood becomes acid and the body fights this by taking more calcium out of the bones to fix the PH levels in the blood.

so an unbalanced diet (not milk) of acids and alkalines can cause the body to remove calcium from the bones to balance it out which causes brittle bones.

so acids, not just proteins, are the problem though i guess not much more of a problem then the alkalines could be if your diet was unbalanced in that way.

what foods are acids? just protein from milk? no, and heres a list of acidic foods that cause brittle bones just like milk.

ACIDIFYING VEGETABLES
Corn
Lentils
Olives
Winter Squash

ACIDIFYING FRUITS
Blueberries
Canned or Glazed Fruits
Cranberries
Currants
Plums**
Prunes**

ACIDIFYING GRAINS, GRAIN PRODUCTS
Amaranth
Barley
Bran, wheat
Bran, oat
Corn
Cornstarch
Hemp Seed Flour
Kamut
Oats (rolled)
Oatmeal
Quinoa
Rice (all)
Rice Cakes
Rye
Spelt
Wheat
Wheat Germ
Noodles
Macaroni
Spaghetti
Bread
Crackers, soda
Flour, white
Flour, wheat

ACIDIFYING BEANS & LEGUMES
Black Beans
Chick Peas
Green Peas
Kidney Beans
Lentils
Pinto Beans
Red Beans
Soy Beans
Soy Milk
White Beans
Rice Milk
Almond Milk

ACIDIFYING DAIRY
Butter
Cheese
Cheese, Processed
Ice Cream
Ice Milk

ACIDIFYING NUTS & BUTTERS
Cashews
Legumes
Peanuts
Peanut Butter
Pecans
Tahini
Walnuts

ACIDIFYING ANIMAL PROTEIN
Bacon
Beef
Carp
Clams
Cod
Corned Beef
Fish
Haddock
Lamb
Lobster
Mussels
Organ Meats
Oyster
Pike
Pork
Rabbit
Salmon
Sardines
Sausage
Scallops
Shrimp
Scallops
Shellfish
Tuna
Turkey
Veal
Venison

ACIDIFYING FATS & OILS
Avacado Oil
Butter
Canola Oil
Corn Oil
Hemp Seed Oil
Flax Oil
Lard
Olive Oil
Safflower Oil
Sesame Oil
Sunflower Oil

ACIDIFYING SWEETENERS
Carob
Sugar
Corn Syrup

ACIDIFYING ALCOHOL
Beer
Spirits
Hard Liquor
Wine

ACIDIFYING OTHER FOODS
Catsup
Cocoa
Coffee
Vinegar
Mustard
Pepper
Soft Drinks

ACIDIFYING DRUGS & CHEMICALS
Aspirin
Chemicals
Drugs, Medicinal
Drugs, Psychedelic
Pesticides
Herbicides
Tobacco

Now is calcium the only alkaline? is there no other way to counteract milk protein acid other then with calcium or bone calcium? No:

ALKALIZING VEGETABLES
Alfalfa
Barley Grass
Beets
Beet Greens
Broccoli
Cabbage
Carrot
Cauliflower
Celery
Chard Greens
Chlorella
Collard Greens
Cucumber
Dandelions
Dulce
Edible Flowers
Eggplant
Fermented Veggies
Garlic
Green Beans
Green Peas
Kale
Kohlrabi
Lettuce
Mushrooms
Mustard Greens
Nightshade Veggies
Onions
Parsnips (high glycemic)
Peas
Peppers
Pumpkin
Radishes
Rutabaga
Sea Veggies
Spinach, green
Spirulina
Sprouts
Sweet Potatoes
Tomatoes
Watercress
Wheat Grass
Wild Greens

ALKALIZING ORIENTAL VEGETABLES
Maitake
Daikon
Dandelion Root
****ake
Kombu
Reishi
Nori
Umeboshi
Wakame

ALKALIZING FRUITS
Apple
Apricot
Avocado
Banana (high glycemic)
Berries
Blackberries
Cantaloupe
Cherries, sour
Coconut, fresh
Currants
Dates, dried
Figs, dried
G****s
G****fruit*
Honeydew Melon
Lemon*
Lime*
Muskmelons
Nectarine*
Orange*
Peach
Pear
Pineapple
Raisins
Raspberries
Rhubarb
Strawberries
Tangerine*
Tomato
Tropical Fruits
Umeboshi Plums
Watermelon

*Although it might seem that citrus fruits would have an acidifying effect on the body, the citric acid they contain actually has an alkalinizing effect in the system.

ALKALIZING PROTEIN
Almonds
Chestnuts
Millet
Tempeh (fermented)
Tofu (fermented)
Whey Protein Powder

ALKALIZING SWEETENERS
Stevia

ALKALIZING ****ES & SEASONINGS
Cinnamon
Curry
Ginger
Mustard
Chili Pepper
Sea Salt
Miso
Tamari
All Herbs

ALKALIZING OTHER
Apple Cider Vinegar
Bee Pollen
Lecithin Granules
Molasses, blackstrap
Probiotic Cultures
Soured Dairy Products
Green Juices
Veggie Juices
Fresh Fruit Juice
Mineral Water
Alkaline Antioxidant Water

ALKALIZING MINERALS
Cesium: pH 14
Potassium: pH 14
Sodium: pH 14
Calcium: pH 12
Magnesium: pH 9

while you may have pointed out that an unbalanced ph can cause a calcium deficiency you did nothing to prove that milk is any worse for you then corn oil or peanuts. in fact with milks ph at 6.8 and peanuts at 6.28 peanuts are much more acidic.

[EzzardFan]

What are your thoughts on Milk?

Lots of people debate whether it's good or bad.

Alot of people say it's no good for you and is has chemicals and steriods in it, and it isnt healthly to drink something from a cow. And it's a myth that it makes your bones stronger etc. And you shound't drink it. And shound't eat nothing that milk has been apart of.

But other people say you have to drink milk, it really helps your bones and growth and provides.

I don't know what to belive...........

I drink milk made from oats not animals.

The Far East has the lowest level of milk consumption in the world AND the lowest levels of osteoporosis. Here is the West we have the highest levels of milk consumption an the highest levels of osteoporosis. So the argument about milk being good for your bones is a triumph of marketing over fact. Likewise it is virtually impossible for a human being to extract protein from dairy products as we lack the digestive enzyme (present in baby cows) which is able to split the caesium from the calcium. So don't bother eating cottage cheese to build muscle...

[Spartacus Sully]

I drink milk made from oats not animals.

The Far East has the lowest level of milk consumption in the world AND the lowest levels of osteoporosis. Here is the West we have the highest levels of milk consumption an the highest levels of osteoporosis. So the argument about milk being good for your bones is a triumph of marketing over fact. Likewise it is virtually impossible for a human being to extract protein from dairy products as we lack the digestive enzyme (present in baby cows) which is able to split the caesium from the calcium. So don't bother eating cottage cheese to build muscle...

so the high intake of junk food sugars wheats eggs fast food and what not cant possible be the cause it has to be milk.

and casein protein is digestible it just takes longer then whey.

[screwhead1]

much like corn...it will be very difficult to determine what evidence (scientific or not) is real or just some lobby induced crap...at the end of the day...milk has both beneficial and negative components...but we as consumers are at the disadvantage due to us never actually knowing unless we conduct the research on our own with our bodies as the test subjects...

try a diet for 6 weeks with increased milk consumption...then try it wiothout it...i hope you have health insurance as well...

[luv4boxing84]

so an unbalanced diet (not milk) of acids and alkalines can cause the body to remove calcium from the bones to balance it out which causes brittle bones.

so acids, not just proteins, are the problem though i guess not much more of a problem then the alkalines could be if your diet was unbalanced in that way.

what foods are acids? just protein from milk? no, and heres a list of acidic foods that cause brittle bones just like milk.


Now is calcium the only alkaline? is there no other way to counteract milk protein acid other then with calcium or bone calcium? No:



while you may have pointed out that an unbalanced ph can cause a calcium deficiency you did nothing to prove that milk is any worse for you then corn oil or peanuts. in fact with milks ph at 6.8 and peanuts at 6.28 peanuts are much more acidic.

Oh man. I swear its like you pay no attention. You remind me of my brother. He will argue to the death just to argue.
Yes, other things can make your blood acidic and make your bones leach calcium. Table salt is another bad one. BUT, milk in particular seems to cause bone loss. Even more than these other foods. I posted a quote about a clinical study where two groups of women were followed over 2 years. One drank milk the other did not. At the end of the study the group that drank milk had twice the bone loss of the other. No other significant dietary differences were found.
So you can continue to waste your energy with your babbling. But this is not even an argument. These are the facts. It is really straight forward.

[Righthandbanger]

the fact america has more hip fractures than the japanese is more likely due to america generally being a less active and more overweigth people on the whole

..other than that there is no actual evidence that milk is harmful, only possibly coincidental links.

..as long as power lifters are drinking milk, some of which lift 260kg above their head, I'm gonna go ahead and keep drinking milk