Is there an argument for Hopkins to be top 10-15 ATG?

[AntonTheMeh]

he has the same issue that the klits have, with him it's to a lesser extent because he's got tito on his resume. alot of those 90's guy didn't do themselves any favors. him, roy, toney, mclellan, could have been the fab 4 ala ray, duran, hearns, hagler, but only roy ended up fighting two of those guys in that bunch.

[bojangles1987]

why not?

wins over

Pavlik
Glenn Johnson
Oscar
Tito
Winky
Cloud
Pascal
Tarver

Name 10 better middleweights sir

Good. Now take a look at those names, consider when and how he beat them, and ask yourself if that's even remotely close to top 10 or 15 ATG.

The answer is no.

[Mr.Fantastic]

Absolutely Not!!!

He is great but not a legend.

[-MAKAVELLI-]

no man, just stop

[IronDanHamza]

why not?

Great fighter but resume isn't even nearly strong enough.

The resume you've listed below, whilst impressive, really isn't that impressive. (Obviously talking ATG standard here)

wins over

Pavlik
Glenn Johnson
Oscar
Tito
Winky
Cloud
Pascal
Tarver

Name 10 better middleweights sir

I don't think naming Oscar and especially Cloud in Hopkins best wins is any where near fair to Hopkins. Neither are very good wins.

Other than Johnson, (And of course Tito) you haven't listed any of his top wins from his MW run.

I have Hopkins #10 at MW all time, for the record. He's definitely Top 15 though that's at the absolute very least he could be.

[FeFist]

You can make an argument for it, but it doesn't mean that everyone will agree with it.

[Larry the boss]

Good. Now take a look at those names, consider when and how he beat them, and ask yourself if that's even remotely close to top 10 or 15 ATG.

The answer is no.

winky,pascal,cloud,pavlik,tarver-was over 40 when he beat them

Tito,winky,johnson,cloud,pavlik-all undefeated

[bklynboy]

Yes IMO.

His resume is as good as anybody in history. 20 successful defences of a title, up there with any ATG.

Let's just say he's a TOP 10 middleweight. If that's the case he's certainly not a TOP 10 ATG. Let's give him bonus points for his light-heavy resume and give him a few more bonus points for being competitive in his late 40s.

I still don't see him being a TOP 10 to TOP 15 of all time. But, really, that doesn't matter. He's doing title defenses at age 48. That's never going to be forgotten.

Off the top of my head I would place the following above Hopkins without question

Sam Langford
Gene Tunney
Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore (the original Hopkins)

Harry Greb
Carlos Monzon
Marv Hagler
Ketchel and Fitzsimmons (the fight game was too different to compare)

SRR
Henry Armstrong
Roberto Duran
Benny Leonard
Joe Gans (as with Ketchel and Fitzsimmons)

Willie Pep

There are many others that would be fighting for the next 25 slots with Hopkins.

[Vasyl’s dad]

How many ost "random" drug tests did he take?

[Vasyl’s dad]

winky,pascal,cloud,pavlik,tarver-was over 40 when he beat them

Tito,winky,johnson,cloud,pavlik-all undefeated

Calzaghe, top 10 atg.