There are some spelling mistakes here due to fast typin, but u should get the point!
Kid died in early 1962, does anybody remember him or
what? The boxer who killed him still has nightmares,
i know Ray Robinson killed a man, but he got over it
fast, not his fault. These days, boxing matches, they
stop way too early, before too late.
Here's the rate:
Anti-boxing activist Manuel Velazquez compiled
extensive data on deaths in boxing [19].
In 1984, R.J. McCunney and P.K. Russo published a
study entitled Brain Injuries in Boxing. The study
argued that boxing is relatively safe compared to
other sports by citing the following figures on U.S.
sports fatalities:
Fatality rates per 100,000 participants
Horse racing: 128
Sky diving: 123
Hang gliding: 56
Mountaineering: 51
Scuba diving: 11
Motorcycle racing: 7
College football: 3
Boxing: 1.3
Dr. Lundberg replied: "It's not the deaths but the
chronic brain damage that is so frequent." The AMA
reports brain deterioration in three out of four
boxers who have twenty or more professional fights.
To date, there has been little research regarding the
long-term effects of amateur boxing.
I wonder if the above is true? It does not say how
many wrestlers die?
:TU: I know for a fact that jersey joe walcott
beat up a wrestler on april 3 1956 and jack dempsey in
1940, but how about these days, can boxer beat up
wrestler, may be, what about kick boxer, most
definitely?!
Assuming we had top 10 boxers vs wrestlers and vs kick
boxers, separately of course., Expand your opinions...
I think Boxers vs wrestlers 50-50, vs kikc boxers with
2/3 of contest, why... Kick boxer may hurt you in
legs, he can not hurt you in face, you will block the
leg or catch it, good boxer, once he gets inside of
you, you are dead.
-------
After long and tiring investigation I found out the
following:
I know Nino was scheduled to fight rocky on January
2nd. But both he and Baker eliminated themselves Dec
7.(fight was originally scheduled for nov 30)
Interesting thing to note is John Holman...
DID I SAY THE STEEL WORKER JOHN HOLMAN ?
Yea, he beat Satterfield. Holman was a good boxer,
but not very good boxer. What I found out was this:
Satterfield beat both Valdez and Baker, all by KO,
Satterfield beat Holman twice, also by KO, but in
their final meeting, Holman destroyed him.
Thus, Holman beat somebody who beat Valdes who beat
Hurricane who lost to Baker, meaning all those
people's scalps belonged to Holman. All of 1955 was a
good year for Holman, as it was for Baker.
Satterfield did, however loose to Archie Moore in
1947, but he was only in his 2nd year as a fighter.
:TU: :wink: :box:
What does that mean, does that mean Holman deserved a
shot at Rocky? THAT IS CORRECT. Jim Norris was
arranging something for 3/3/1956. And that was in Jan
56. Satterfield, if he KO'd Holman, he was to be rated
#1,(actually, all he had to do was be impressive,
that's all) so I ask myself... why then Holman, why
was he rated 4th on the ratings list if he destroyed
bob? May be because Baker won 13 straight, aka Baker's
dozen means something. May be. Holman beat Ezzard
Charles, KO, but in a return fight Old Cobra
outpointed him, even so, that should guarantee him
third place. Hurricane lost to Jimmy Slade, SD, thus
he elimianated himself as well, oct 55. There was
stipulation that Rocky will fight Holman on Feb 29th.
Instead Holman fought Rowan dude. (nothing special) He
won. Holman had a lot to prove, he was not better than
Baker nor Valdez, in 1956 and 57 he lost to both of
them, UD.
But the questions remains... BoB Baker truly deserved
a shot at Rocky, but again, he eliminated himself, so
did Valdez. But Baker won, KEEP IN MIND, Baker was
44-5-1, VERY IMPRESSIVE. KEEP IN MIND... WHEN BAKER
STARTED OUT, HE WAS 26-0 BEFORE LOOSING. VERY
IMPRESSIVE, TOP QUALITY FIGHTER. Later, he lost twice
to Hurricane, but he was on his way down and he was
screwed by IBC/NBA and lousy judges. (except ref)
Baker had to loose to Hurricane, IBC was afraid they
would loose money if he was to fight Floyd and he
could beat Floyd, he was smart and had real boxing
skills, but the problem was there was no faith in him.
Nobody really trained him right or properly. (that
reminds me of contender bs, manfredo-mora 2, that was
at least draw for massach. boy, it clearly shows, some
people want their fighters to win so they make money,
again importance of draws is enormous, what i proposed
long time ago).
So the dates kept on popping, Feb 3 56, Madison square
Garden, Norris wanted Rocky to fight Baker. Rocky was
sick of ring and Weill and Norris and Truman (who died
last dec and also published a book, he was in part
responisble for integration of blacks into white
american army). BOB made one MISTAKE: He did not trash
talk, he should have appealed to Rocky, should have
challenged him on national tv, based on his record,
challenge him to fight in Miami Beach or in
Philiadelphia (where he came from)... Once 56 came and
his loss to Hurricane, all was over for him.
That's why he was the fighter of 55, hands down, next
to or as good as Archie, the Old Mongoose. (how old
was he really?)
Well, there you have it, but of course I wrote many
chapters on this, may be some day many others will
hear it. Hope it was informative.
If Baker was impressive against Nino, he had top
chances to fight Rocky... but since he was not and
Holman was, he should have been at least #1 rated or
#2.
ROCKY ALWAYS FOUGHTY EITHER 1 OR 2 RATED GUY, DID HE
GO BELOW THAT? I KNOW VALDEZ WAS RATED #1 BUT ****ELL
WAS CHOSEN BECAUSE OF MONEY? SAD BUT TRUE. Valdez made
a big mistake by fighting moore on may 2 and 15
rounds, after 12 rounds he was at least tied, later,
he was thru. So, he can only blame himself and his
silly manager, but weill was not that smart also.
I would like to add this story....
Wirtz, owner of Chicago Balckhawks, father of five,
named his oldest son Rocky. But not after
Rocky Graziano.
How did Wirtz name his son after Rocky
Marciano is note worthy and hard to
believe. As a college student and football player at
Brown University with more
than a passing knowledge of pugilism, Bill Wirtz got
into a bar brawl
in which he took a punch from an as-yet untested
fighter named Rocky Marciano.
Wirtz told a college friend in 1948 he had some doubts
about the up-and-coming
professional fighter from nearby Brockton, Mass.
"He can punch, but you have to do a lot more in
boxing," Wirtz assessed.
"Boxing is an art. You learn it and it's hard work."
His words spread from that friend to the brother of
the boxer
and to the fighter. When Rocky Marciano came into a
bar and saw Wirtz and two
friends there, Marciano ordered a pitcher of beer.
"The guys are laughing and he pours the pitcher of
beer over me,"
Wirtz recalled. "Well, I didn't know, so I go up to
the bar and I get two
pitchers of beer, for his brother and for him, and I
pour them back over them."
Wirtz remembered a few details of "the great barroom
fight." It resulted in a
$2,685 tab, two days in jail and left him with a
newfound respect for Marciano's
power. When Jim Norris bailed him out, "I told him,
'God, this guy can hit,'
Wirtz said. "I was hit in the back with a barstool and
as I was going down,
Rocky hit me with a left hook and I had a contusion
for at least six weeks.
"He hit me on the side of the head, and I was never
hit like that."
Jailed and chatting in adjoining cells, Wirtz
explained to Marciano he only
had meant the young heavyweight wasn't a polished
fighter.
"We became good friends," Wirtz said, enough that he
named his son Rocky.
IS THIS TRUE, WERE THEY GOOD FRIENDS, I WAS TOLD ONLY
FOR A WHILE, NOT LATER, WIRTZ IS AND WAS FULL OF
GARBAGE AS HIS BLACKHAWKS ARE.
Well, the above is interesting, now time to vote...
as far as hurricane goes, he was not ready for this
type of fight at that time, would have survived 10
rounds, but would be a bloddy mess too.
So... for January 56, Baker was the opponent but for
March, it was Holman.
Kid died in early 1962, does anybody remember him or
what? The boxer who killed him still has nightmares,
i know Ray Robinson killed a man, but he got over it
fast, not his fault. These days, boxing matches, they
stop way too early, before too late.
Here's the rate:
Anti-boxing activist Manuel Velazquez compiled
extensive data on deaths in boxing [19].
In 1984, R.J. McCunney and P.K. Russo published a
study entitled Brain Injuries in Boxing. The study
argued that boxing is relatively safe compared to
other sports by citing the following figures on U.S.
sports fatalities:
Fatality rates per 100,000 participants
Horse racing: 128
Sky diving: 123
Hang gliding: 56
Mountaineering: 51
Scuba diving: 11
Motorcycle racing: 7
College football: 3
Boxing: 1.3
Dr. Lundberg replied: "It's not the deaths but the
chronic brain damage that is so frequent." The AMA
reports brain deterioration in three out of four
boxers who have twenty or more professional fights.
To date, there has been little research regarding the
long-term effects of amateur boxing.
I wonder if the above is true? It does not say how
many wrestlers die?
:TU: I know for a fact that jersey joe walcottbeat up a wrestler on april 3 1956 and jack dempsey in
1940, but how about these days, can boxer beat up
wrestler, may be, what about kick boxer, most
definitely?!
Assuming we had top 10 boxers vs wrestlers and vs kick
boxers, separately of course., Expand your opinions...
I think Boxers vs wrestlers 50-50, vs kikc boxers with
2/3 of contest, why... Kick boxer may hurt you in
legs, he can not hurt you in face, you will block the
leg or catch it, good boxer, once he gets inside of
you, you are dead.
-------
After long and tiring investigation I found out the
following:
I know Nino was scheduled to fight rocky on January
2nd. But both he and Baker eliminated themselves Dec
7.(fight was originally scheduled for nov 30)
Interesting thing to note is John Holman...
DID I SAY THE STEEL WORKER JOHN HOLMAN ?
Yea, he beat Satterfield. Holman was a good boxer,
but not very good boxer. What I found out was this:
Satterfield beat both Valdez and Baker, all by KO,
Satterfield beat Holman twice, also by KO, but in
their final meeting, Holman destroyed him.
Thus, Holman beat somebody who beat Valdes who beat
Hurricane who lost to Baker, meaning all those
people's scalps belonged to Holman. All of 1955 was a
good year for Holman, as it was for Baker.
Satterfield did, however loose to Archie Moore in
1947, but he was only in his 2nd year as a fighter.
:TU: :wink: :box:
What does that mean, does that mean Holman deserved a
shot at Rocky? THAT IS CORRECT. Jim Norris was
arranging something for 3/3/1956. And that was in Jan
56. Satterfield, if he KO'd Holman, he was to be rated
#1,(actually, all he had to do was be impressive,
that's all) so I ask myself... why then Holman, why
was he rated 4th on the ratings list if he destroyed
bob? May be because Baker won 13 straight, aka Baker's
dozen means something. May be. Holman beat Ezzard
Charles, KO, but in a return fight Old Cobra
outpointed him, even so, that should guarantee him
third place. Hurricane lost to Jimmy Slade, SD, thus
he elimianated himself as well, oct 55. There was
stipulation that Rocky will fight Holman on Feb 29th.
Instead Holman fought Rowan dude. (nothing special) He
won. Holman had a lot to prove, he was not better than
Baker nor Valdez, in 1956 and 57 he lost to both of
them, UD.
But the questions remains... BoB Baker truly deserved
a shot at Rocky, but again, he eliminated himself, so
did Valdez. But Baker won, KEEP IN MIND, Baker was
44-5-1, VERY IMPRESSIVE. KEEP IN MIND... WHEN BAKER
STARTED OUT, HE WAS 26-0 BEFORE LOOSING. VERY
IMPRESSIVE, TOP QUALITY FIGHTER. Later, he lost twice
to Hurricane, but he was on his way down and he was
screwed by IBC/NBA and lousy judges. (except ref)
Baker had to loose to Hurricane, IBC was afraid they
would loose money if he was to fight Floyd and he
could beat Floyd, he was smart and had real boxing
skills, but the problem was there was no faith in him.
Nobody really trained him right or properly. (that
reminds me of contender bs, manfredo-mora 2, that was
at least draw for massach. boy, it clearly shows, some
people want their fighters to win so they make money,
again importance of draws is enormous, what i proposed
long time ago).
So the dates kept on popping, Feb 3 56, Madison square
Garden, Norris wanted Rocky to fight Baker. Rocky was
sick of ring and Weill and Norris and Truman (who died
last dec and also published a book, he was in part
responisble for integration of blacks into white
american army). BOB made one MISTAKE: He did not trash
talk, he should have appealed to Rocky, should have
challenged him on national tv, based on his record,
challenge him to fight in Miami Beach or in
Philiadelphia (where he came from)... Once 56 came and
his loss to Hurricane, all was over for him.
That's why he was the fighter of 55, hands down, next
to or as good as Archie, the Old Mongoose. (how old
was he really?)
Well, there you have it, but of course I wrote many
chapters on this, may be some day many others will
hear it. Hope it was informative.
If Baker was impressive against Nino, he had top
chances to fight Rocky... but since he was not and
Holman was, he should have been at least #1 rated or
#2.
ROCKY ALWAYS FOUGHTY EITHER 1 OR 2 RATED GUY, DID HE
GO BELOW THAT? I KNOW VALDEZ WAS RATED #1 BUT ****ELL
WAS CHOSEN BECAUSE OF MONEY? SAD BUT TRUE. Valdez made
a big mistake by fighting moore on may 2 and 15
rounds, after 12 rounds he was at least tied, later,
he was thru. So, he can only blame himself and his
silly manager, but weill was not that smart also.
I would like to add this story....
Wirtz, owner of Chicago Balckhawks, father of five,
named his oldest son Rocky. But not after
Rocky Graziano.
How did Wirtz name his son after Rocky
Marciano is note worthy and hard to
believe. As a college student and football player at
Brown University with more
than a passing knowledge of pugilism, Bill Wirtz got
into a bar brawl
in which he took a punch from an as-yet untested
fighter named Rocky Marciano.
Wirtz told a college friend in 1948 he had some doubts
about the up-and-coming
professional fighter from nearby Brockton, Mass.
"He can punch, but you have to do a lot more in
boxing," Wirtz assessed.
"Boxing is an art. You learn it and it's hard work."
His words spread from that friend to the brother of
the boxer
and to the fighter. When Rocky Marciano came into a
bar and saw Wirtz and two
friends there, Marciano ordered a pitcher of beer.
"The guys are laughing and he pours the pitcher of
beer over me,"
Wirtz recalled. "Well, I didn't know, so I go up to
the bar and I get two
pitchers of beer, for his brother and for him, and I
pour them back over them."
Wirtz remembered a few details of "the great barroom
fight." It resulted in a
$2,685 tab, two days in jail and left him with a
newfound respect for Marciano's
power. When Jim Norris bailed him out, "I told him,
'God, this guy can hit,'
Wirtz said. "I was hit in the back with a barstool and
as I was going down,
Rocky hit me with a left hook and I had a contusion
for at least six weeks.
"He hit me on the side of the head, and I was never
hit like that."
Jailed and chatting in adjoining cells, Wirtz
explained to Marciano he only
had meant the young heavyweight wasn't a polished
fighter.
"We became good friends," Wirtz said, enough that he
named his son Rocky.
IS THIS TRUE, WERE THEY GOOD FRIENDS, I WAS TOLD ONLY
FOR A WHILE, NOT LATER, WIRTZ IS AND WAS FULL OF
GARBAGE AS HIS BLACKHAWKS ARE.
Well, the above is interesting, now time to vote...
as far as hurricane goes, he was not ready for this
type of fight at that time, would have survived 10
rounds, but would be a bloddy mess too.
So... for January 56, Baker was the opponent but for
March, it was Holman.
He died in early 1962, does anybody remember him or
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