Who Would Win Ward VS Martinez

[billeau2]

Martinez was nothing, a flash in the pan who couldn't box. He was another Popo. He had decent reflexes and could move around the ring. An example of a fighter who used his natural abilities to the maximum and had little else in terms of boxing skill. Ward would knock him out and make him look like a fool.

This post is exactly how I feel as well.

[GGG Gloveking]

Ward beats the sh it out Sergio

[billeau2]

Martinez is smaller RJJ ,but big RJJ would make Ward look like B- fighter ,and he have same style as Martinez

Even if one were to agree with you, Roy Jones, much like Ali (for example) did not box well at all according to conventional training. Ali and Jones were rule breakers because they had incredible attributes. For example, both men held hands low, both men moved in straight lines, and could usually evade a punch going straight back...

So the style employed would be a relative disadvantage to Martinez, a guy who was essentially an ambush fighter, went in quick and got way out. I don't think Martinez was quite as fast as RJ, but who knows?

[Canelo and GGG]

Even if one were to agree with you, Roy Jones, much like Ali (for example) did not box well at all according to conventional training. Ali and Jones were rule breakers because they had incredible attributes. For example, both men held hands low, both men moved in straight lines, and could usually evade a punch going straight back...

So the style employed would be a relative disadvantage to Martinez, a guy who was essentially an ambush fighter, went in quick and got way out. I don't think Martinez was quite as fast as RJ, but who knows?

Both had natural talent ,i would agree thet Roy had more talent ,thatts why fighters like RJJ and Sergio lose step while fighters like Cotto or Floyd are still very good to late 30s same with JMM so we agree on this ,basicly Ward Hopkins etc are longer in theyr prime while Marinez and Roy fade fast.

[Elroy The Great]

id see sm being too crafty and sturdy for sog. sm would give as good as he took but wouldnt take as much.

[kiDynamite92]

Even if one were to agree with you, Roy Jones, much like Ali (for example) did not box well at all according to conventional training. Ali and Jones were rule breakers because they had incredible attributes. For example, both men held hands low, both men moved in straight lines, and could usually evade a punch going straight back...

So the style employed would be a relative disadvantage to Martinez, a guy who was essentially an ambush fighter, went in quick and got way out. I don't think Martinez was quite as fast as RJ, but who knows?

lol tbh, who was? Meldrick Taylor had faster hands but his refelex' were nothing like Roy's.

[billeau2]

lol tbh, who was? Meldrick Taylor had faster hands but his refelex' were nothing like Roy's.

Absolutely correct.

I responded to the comparison between Martinez and Jones diplomatically I often look in the mirror ans forget how old 53 is...there are posters here who have never seen the real RJ live. There are posters here who probably have never watched tape of Ali and understand the way Ali was so castigated...how hard it is to know you are getting in the ring with Foreman...a guy who probably COULD kill someone in the ring...(I am still loling at all the people who thought Hayes is a killer)... So I try to temper my language.

But honestly no way in this, or the Buddhist six worlds that Martinez has a reaction time similar to a prime RJ. I am glad I could qualify that along with saying that yes Haye was a very talented cruiser weight.

[billeau2]

Both had natural talent ,i would agree thet Roy had more talent ,thatts why fighters like RJJ and Sergio lose step while fighters like Cotto or Floyd are still very good to late 30s same with JMM so we agree on this ,basicly Ward Hopkins etc are longer in theyr prime while Marinez and Roy fade fast.

Dude its nice to think creatively. Certainy Martinez had talent. He actually was a soccer player, "soccer" being a term us yanks use for Football lol...But you have to stop comparing Martinez to Jones... Two different leagues. I don't even rank RJ as highly as some do, lets just say that at his height he took apart fighters like Toney and Hopkins. To embarass and outclass a guy like Toney is a level that Martinez never came close to. Martinez was a naturally talented ambush fighter. yes he had some impressive speed, but its not on the same level.

[Canelo and GGG]

Dude its nice to think creatively. Certainy Martinez had talent. He actually was a soccer player, "soccer" being a term us yanks use for Football lol...But you have to stop comparing Martinez to Jones... Two different leagues. I don't even rank RJ as highly as some do, lets just say that at his height he took apart fighters like Toney and Hopkins. To embarass and outclass a guy like Toney is a level that Martinez never came close to. Martinez was a naturally talented ambush fighter. yes he had some impressive speed, but its not on the same level.

I agree both was naturaly gifted ,not sayin Sergio is on Roy level cuse his not ,i stated in this thread that i think he is to small for Ward doe to even think about this match up.

what we can see is that Roy and Sergio faded pretty badly.

i compared them cuse of styles and useing athlecism in both cases ,similarty not allways mean equal

[billeau2]

I agree both was naturaly gifted ,not sayin Sergio is on Roy level cuse his not ,i stated in this thread that i think he is to small for Ward doe to even think about this match up.

what we can see is that Roy and Sergio faded pretty badly.

i compared them cuse of styles and useing athlecism in both cases ,similarty not allways mean equal

Fair enough but how they were different is very relevant to a comparison. Roy was born and bred as a fighter. His father was either a taskmaster or downright abusive, but had Roy learning and mastering his craft at a very young age. Roy's decisions to disregard conventional boxing truisms are much like Picasso's decision to paint in Cezanne's Cubist vocabulary: If asked Picasso could render perfect technique regarding realism, Roy could stick and jab with the best of them... Both men broke convention as a choice fully capable of abiding to conventional methods.

martinez was a very late talent. He did not necessarily understand the intricacies of the boxer when he chose a way to maximize his potential. Resourceful indeed, but a different way of arriving to a choice of styles.

What this means is far beyond splitting hairs: The depth and intricacy of JOnes as a fighter was substantial. There was no depth, nor any great mystery to beating Martinez, and once one could operate at a certain level Martinez was done.