Liston Vs Foreman

[Vadrigar.]

Liston adapts during the fight with his superior technical skills, keeping foreman at the end of his jab and setting up a rhythm. Liston's chin was also tested agianst Mike DeJohn, Nino Valdes and Willams so he would take Foreman's hits. Foreman admitted that Liston was the only man ever, to push him back during sparring, no one else stood up to him. Liston's jab is the deciding factor in this fight.

Liston UD.

the polls would be completely different if you put this thread in NSB.

[Miburo]

Foreman was in his prime when Ali stopped him.

He was also in a bad mental state in the most hostile environment imaginable in sweltering outdoor heat (SRR-Maxim anyone?). The ref didn't even bother counting him out, he just sent him back to his corner, who cares that he got up, Ali was the chosen one (not that I think he would have won at that point). It was also exhaustion, not damage. As I said, Foreman gets stopped by nobody on punishment.

[Steak]

Foreman was in his prime when Ali stopped him.

sort of. in terms of age he was, but imo he had become full of himself and was becoming much more wild leading up to the Ali bout. If you watch his earlier fights hes actually quite patient, and even in the Frazier fight he actually kind of went about it methodically, despite the fact that it was a quick outright destruction.

Against Ali he basically was flailing away from the get-go, when in previous such situations he at least measured his punches and followed behind his jab.

[Vadrigar.]

sort of. in terms of age he was, but imo he had become full of himself and was becoming much more wild leading up to the Ali bout. If you watch his earlier fights hes actually quite patient, and even in the Frazier fight he actually kind of went about it methodically, despite the fact that it was a quick outright destruction.

Against Ali he basically was flailing away from the get-go, when in previous such situations he at least measured his punches and followed behind his jab.

Maybe that was part of his gameplan., but if he slowed down to Ali's pace by measuring, it would give Ali more time to outbox him and Foreman would eat more leather than he did in the fight. I just don't think there was any way Foreman could beat him. I mean, if you watch his fight with Norton, for example, he boxed Foreman pretty well in the first 2 rounds until he was caught by a "freak punch" as Ali put it. After the first round Ali was commentated from ringside admiring the way Norton boxed Foreman. Norton couldn't execute the strategy because of his lacking durability.



Foreman was in his prime.

[Vadrigar.]

He was also in a bad mental state

How do you know that?, it's a subjective statement. unless you're in his mind it's pretty hard to know how foreman felt.

in the most hostile environment imaginable in sweltering outdoor heat (SRR-Maxim anyone?).

Ali was in the same ring in the same "hostile environment", but i think it's exaggeration anyway. You used the maxim example, but SRR was past his prime at that point, his optimum weight class being welterweight. Ali was actually past prime in that fight.

The ref didn't even bother counting him out, he just sent him back to his corner, who cares that he got up,

He was down for the count comfortably, you can time it yourself using the footage.

Ali was the chosen one.

Ali was the better fighter.

It was also exhaustion, not damage.

it was a mixture of both, no need to disregard the way Ali outboxed him in the center of the ring.

[Steak]

I never suggested that Foreman would have beaten Ali, but imo he simply looked smarter and better pre Ali.

[Vadrigar.]

I never suggested that Foreman would have beaten Ali, but imo he simply looked smarter and better pre Ali.

I know, but i think that it was a different gameplan compare to other fights.

[BigStereotype]

I think that Foreman's chin holds up slightly longer and he stops Liston after a bonecrunching war. This isn't the kind fight you can predict how long it will go, both guys can end it with a single punch.

[Miburo]

How do you know that?, it's a subjective statement. unless you're in his mind it's pretty hard to know how foreman felt.



Ali was in the same ring in the same "hostile environment", but i think it's exaggeration anyway. You used the maxim example, but SRR was past his prime at that point, his optimum weight class being welterweight. Ali was actually past prime in that fight.




He was down for the count comfortably, you can time it yourself using the footage.



Ali was the better fighter.



it was a mixture of both, no need to disregard the way Ali outboxed him in the center of the ring.

Wow, not even sure where to begin here. Ali was in a hostile environment? Are you insane? The entire country was behind him calling for him to KILL Foreman.

Robinson was not far past his prime during the Maxim fight, he was 31. He was a bit beyond his peak, but those were still prime years. Also his condition had nothing to with him losing that fight, which he dominated, it was the heat that caused him to lose, which was my point.

Foreman was up at 10. Go take another look.

It was a great example of psychological warfare by Ali, and that more than the boxing aspect led to a great victory.

Congratulations on every single one of your points being falsehoods, I'm honestly amazed.

[Vadrigar.]

Wow, not even sure where to begin here. Ali was in a hostile environment? Are you insane? The entire country was behind him calling for him to KILL Foreman.

And that was supposed to scare him? You should see how confident he was in the pre fight vides, like the press conference.

Foreman recalled himself thinking the fight was going to be really easy in the opening rounds.

I was referring/ I thought you meant the weather conditions, in which case would have affected Ali also.

Robinson was not far past his prime during the Maxim fight, he was 31. He was a bit beyond his peak, but those were still prime years. Also his condition had nothing to with him losing that fight, which he dominated, it was the heat that caused him to lose, which was my point.

Then it's a pretty bad comparison, since the heat did not cause Foreman to loose. he wasn't dominating the way Robinson was on Maxim, I thought Ali was ahead on points But since you're using this example Ali was fighting against the odds, himself being past prime

Foreman was up at 10. Go take another look.

You should too.

It was a great example of psychological warfare by Ali, and that more than the boxing aspect led to a great victory.

Yes, It was a great victory, but I have to disagree here, the skills and tactics displayed in the ring by both fighters was more significant than the phychological aspect.

Congratulations on every single one of your points being falsehoods, I'm honestly amazed.

This is a Falsehood!