Marvin Hagler vs Sugar Ray Robinson

[DarkTerror88]

These men are my top 2 middleweight fighters so how would they perform against each other? Its fairly obvious that nobody is going down for the count in this fight. Oh and the fight is @ 160.

SRR's blend of speed and power make him deadly all throughout the fight, but Hagler's overall strengths and the ability to practically do anything make him a challenge for anyone.

Whadda you guys think?

[PEBBLES!]

Hagler's ability to do anything? I don't agree with this at all.

As for the match-up, I can envisage Robinson knocking Hagler out.

Robinson did have trouble with Basilio's constant pressure in their first bout so, Hagler's best opportunity would be to pressure Ray.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

I wouldn't rule out Robinson knocking Hagler out, or stopping him on his feet. He left LaMotta helpless &, even more impressively in my opinion, levelled the absolutely iron-jawed Fullmer for the count with one debilitating shot --- & that wasn't even the best version of the Middleweight Robinson, given he was past thirty-five.

With that said, I don't think Hagler's style, & his versatility, really lend themselves toward a result inside the distance. Hagler could brawl & box, slug & pepper, & on his better nights, he was plenty good no matter the approach. Question is, how would he approach Robinson? This is just an educated guess of course, but I think he'd do so with an open-mind, & at least initially, let Robinson dictate how Hagler himself fights. If Robinson wants the brawls he was ****** into with LaMotta &, later, Basilio, Hagler's ego & pride will probably get the best of him, & he'll oblige. Can Hagler win a firefight? I'm not sure he can --- Robinson in the heyday of his Middleweight campaign had faster hands, a noticeably more explosive punch, & he was quicker at getting in-&-out of range with his footwork than Hagler would be trying to pin him down for any extended period of time.

What, then, if it becomes a boxing match? Many will say an ageing but still active Hagler couldn't match a faded Leonard as a boxer, but Robinson would not fight with the caution & deliberations the more frightened Leonard did.

I always try to look at the fighters' biggest problem from both angles. I think Robinson's handspeed will be Hagler's foremost dilemma. Hagler can deal with speed alone, but with those combinations & that power, even he will be hurt at some point. Hagler's chin is no better than Fullmer's, & his wellspring of courage, no greater than Basilio's. From Robinson's perspective, he really didn't deal with very many multi-faceted fighters who were on this level, in terms of ability. I can understand an argument for Hagler's ability to bait-&-switch, fight at different ranges, & always be coming forward providing significant problems.

I really think in the end, Robinson is going to be just that bit more effective in regards to the numbers game. Hagler's going to give a little too much away to Robinson's accuracy in the eyes of the judges, resulting in scorecards of 9-6, 8-6-1, & 8-7 for Robinson. A competitive UD.

Both men make my top-5 all-time Middleweight list. At the very least, no one should have them outside a top-10.

[Miburo]

As for the match-up, I can envisage Robinson knocking Hagler out.

I can't see this at all, Hagler is near the absolute top of the best chins list, never even really knocked down (yes, we all know he had one official knockdown).

[PEBBLES!]

I can't see this at all, Hagler is near the absolute top of the best chins list, never even really knocked down (yes, we all know he had one official knockdown).

I had a response waiting, 'cause I imagined somebody would object but it is pretty much a carbon copy of the 1st paragraph of Post. No.3.


Both Fullmer and LaMotta had iron-chins to match Hagler and Robinson sent Fullmer down for the 10 count and battered LaMotta, senseless.

I find it totally plausible that either of the 2 can happen to Hagler.

[Suckmedry]

Close, close fight imo.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

I had a response waiting, 'cause I imagined somebody would object but it is pretty much a carbon copy of the 1st paragraph of Post. No.3.


Both Fullmer and LaMotta had iron-chins to match Hagler and Robinson sent Fullmer down for the 10 count and battered LaMotta, senseless.

I find it totally plausible that either of the 2 can happen to Hagler.

Agreed completely. Hagler's chin is not appreciably better than Fullmer's or LaMotta's. It is folly to think he could not be dented by Robinson's remarkable arsenal.

[Kid McCoy]

I had a response waiting, 'cause I imagined somebody would object but it is pretty much a carbon copy of the 1st paragraph of Post. No.3.


Both Fullmer and LaMotta had iron-chins to match Hagler and Robinson sent Fullmer down for the 10 count and battered LaMotta, senseless.

I find it totally plausible that either of the 2 can happen to Hagler.

Hagler was never legitimately dropped nor ever seriously hurt, much less actually KO'd, in a 15 year career. Robinson was hurt, staggered and dropped numerous times. The average punching LaMotta had him down twice. Artie Levine had him badly hurt in a fight where Ray is believed to have got a long count. If there is to be a stoppage (which I think is unlikely) then it's more likely Hagler gets it. Robinson's best chance of a stoppage would be on cuts.

Fullmer was a lightning in a bottle shot, like Nunn-Kalambay or Martinez-Williams, totally inexplicable. Remember the other three fights went the distance. To me LaMotta shows it would be unlikely Robinson stops Hagler. LaMotta was near killing himself to make 160 by then and was spent after 10 rounds of that last fight. Robinson had another 3 rounds pounding on a defenceless, exhausted LaMotta and was still unable to seriously hurt him. It was the referee who stopped it. He couldn't budge Jake in their other five fights.

[Miburo]

Hagler was never legitimately dropped nor ever seriously hurt, much less actually KO'd, in a 15 year career. Robinson was hurt, staggered and dropped numerous times. The average punching LaMotta had him down twice. Artie Levine had him badly hurt in a fight where Ray is believed to have got a long count. If there is to be a stoppage (which I think is unlikely) then it's more likely Hagler gets it. Robinson's best chance of a stoppage would be on cuts.

Fullmer was a lightning in a bottle shot, like Nunn-Kalambay or Martinez-Williams, totally inexplicable. Remember the other three fights went the distance. To me LaMotta shows it would be unlikely Robinson stops Hagler. LaMotta was near killing himself to make 160 by then and was spent after 10 rounds of that last fight. Robinson had another 3 rounds pounding on a defenceless, exhausted LaMotta and was still unable to seriously hurt him. It was the referee who stopped it. He couldn't budge Jake in their other five fights.

This. Once in six fights did he stop LaMotta, mostly from exhaustion. The Fullmer shot was once in a lifetime. You're also disregarding his fights with Basilio among others. Robinson was not the champ of punchers at 160 (I47 is different) and would not hurt Hagler.

[Wild Blue Yonda]

Robinson hurt every man he ever hit. Basilio, Fullmer, LaMotta --- none of these three, as an example, were in any way less durable, committed or out-right tough than Hagler. Not for one second do I believe that. The fights with Fullmer occurred quite late in Robinson's career. The earlier Middleweight days of Robinson saw a more explosive & up-tempo fighter, less reliant on courage because he was forced to stand & trade a lot less, threw more, conceded less, & so on.

Hagler has this iron-clad reputation regarding his jaw & no one could begrudge him that, but a fighter never being hurt never implies they couldn't be, & no man has a chin which can't be dented. Robinson couldn't dent LaMotta outside of that one stoppage? For a fact, LaMotta is quick to disagree. Everyone, in fact, acknowledged Robinson's awesome offensive arsenal --- his power, his speed & combinations, the precision of his punches, & the angles.

Hagler isn't going to bull-rush Robinson consistently for fifteen rounds, ala LaMotta or Basilio, but he might fight similarly to Fullmer, attempting to bully & rough Robinson up. Hagler was obviously a better all-round MW than Fullmer, & I don't see a stoppage or KO as the most likely result, but if Hagler gets too brawl-happy, it is certainly possible he runs into a barrage or two which stop him dead in his tracks, I don't doubt it.

What I find very unlikely is the thought Hagler could stop Robinson. Even the old, fading version fought tooth-&-nail for fifteen incredibly bruising rounds with Fullmer & Basilio multiple times, hearing the final bell on every occasion. Hagler was more versatile than those men & likely would not pursue the same relentlessly single-track tact they did.

Hagler needs to win on points, & that is certainly a genuine possibility in my mind. However, I do favour Robinson, being the better fighter across the board. I doubt anyone gets stopped, but at least in my opinion, if someone told me there was definitely going to be a KO (or TKO), & asked me to pick who was getting taken out, I would be confident Hagler would be the victim.