Hagler vs. Leonard!!

[donkim]

If Quintana badly exposed PW, why didnt he lose again? Why did Quintana have his rear end handed to him in the 1 Rd rematch? Styles makes fights. I said before the PW vs Martinez fight that it would be close. PW didnt use his reach and decided to slug it out instead of box. Why? PW is trying to win fans over and get big deals. If he wins a one sided fight like he did with Winky Wright the master boxer who PW destroyed; than he will have more people ducking him. PW is still 38-1 and avenged his only lost. I know Donna kin scored it 118-110, but I had it 115-113 which was closer to what the judges had it.

How many Paul Williams fights have you seen? He never uses his height or reach to great effect.His jab is awful and more often or not he fights at close range.


Paul Williams beat a rusty,old Winky Wright based upon speed and workrate.He didn't outbox him at all.


Paul Williams wasn't just beaten,he was beaten up by a smarter,more skillful fighter.


If you don't see how Martinez and Quintana exposed Williams basic lack of fundamentals,then you have no business watching this sport anymore


Paul Williams isn't a good boxer at all.

If he has been so much exposed as you state why isn't Mayweather calling him for a fight? PW also beat Margarito with his loaded gloves and shut out winky. He didnt have alot of time to prepare for Martinez and yet beat a top boxer.

Paul Williams was fortunate to receive a decision over a fighter who had been out of the ring longer than Williams,had been brought up a weight class(Quite odd that Williams wouldn't want the fight to be at a weight class that he can make comfortably,where a title would have een at stake also).


How do you know Margarito had loaded gloves? Do you have proof of this lad? Margarito started slow but won the vast majority of the second half of that fight.He even rocked Williams.


Why would Mayweather want to call him out?

Pavlik delayed the fight with PW on 2 occassions. What was PW going to do? Wait another month? He is a fighter and went to the ring. Pavlik only fought when he was going to get stripped of his title. Kelly made the staph infection an excuse yet he MISSED doctor appointments, that shows how motivated he was to fight PW. You state you are an expert in boxing. Haven't fighters fought with cut eyes, injured hands, and even Harry Greb fought while being blind in one eye? Yet a troll as yourself still will find reasons to make excuses for Pavlik and trivial reasons to knock PW. Pavlik is too slow for PW, BHOP at 43 took him to school. You don't think they studied the film? Pavlik is one of those morons who believes in the triangle theory. Since he beat Taylor and Taylor beat BHOP twice- than it = me beating BHOP.

Pavlik's team offered Williams a fight in late 2008 and Williams was offered a million dollars and Williams turned it down,so Pavlik decided to fight Hopkins instead.


I see what we have here.We have a butt hurt Paul Williams fanboy who go's to bed every night crying himself to sleep over my criticism of the overrated Paul Williams.

Williams chin is suspect and he's never faced a puncher of Pavlik's class.Williams is easy to hit unlike Hopkins and is nowhere near as crafty as Hopkins is.


Get over yourself lad.

[HaglerSteelChin]

How many Paul Williams fights have you seen? He never uses his height or reach to great effect.His jab is awful and more often or not he fights at close range.


Paul Williams beat a rusty,old Winky Wright based upon speed and workrate.He didn't outbox him at all.


Paul Williams wasn't just beaten,he was beaten up by a smarter,more skillful fighter.


If you don't see how Martinez and Quintana exposed Williams basic lack of fundamentals,then you have no business watching this sport anymore


Paul Williams isn't a good boxer at all.






Paul Williams was fortunate to receive a decision over a fighter who had been out of the ring longer than Williams,had been brought up a weight class(Quite odd that Williams wouldn't want the fight to be at a weight class that he can make comfortably,where a title would have een at stake also).


How do you know Margarito had loaded gloves? Do you have proof of this lad? Margarito started slow but won the vast majority of the second half of that fight.He even rocked Williams.


Why would Mayweather want to call him out?






Pavlik's team offered Williams a fight in late 2008 and Williams was offered a million dollars and Williams turned it down,so Pavlik decided to fight Hopkins instead.


I see what we have here.We have a butt hurt Paul Williams fanboy who go's to bed every night crying himself to sleep over my criticism of the overrated Paul Williams.

Williams chin is suspect and he's never faced a puncher of Pavlik's class.Williams is easy to hit unlike Hopkins and is nowhere near as crafty as Hopkins is.


Get over yourself lad.

Donna- if you notice PW is not even among my top 15 fighters and I never said he was invincible. You claim he has been exposed. Yet nobody is jumping up and down to fight him. BTW, people keep talking about him not wanting to fight bigger fighters? He has said he is willing to fight at SMW, no problems with that. Also PW has actually moved up a few times. Yet nobody mentions why Caballero who is nearly 6 feet is fighting midgets at 122? Caballero has crazy height and reach advantages at 122 and still is in most P4P lists.

You mention his chin is suspect yet HE NEVER has been KOD. He had one flash KD. This after 39 fights. Amir Khan has a suspect chin since he already has been KOD. Does Manny Pacquiao have a suspect chin? He was KD 5 times and KOD twiced? But than you will say he was young and make excuses for him. Trolls will only point to trivial things in knocking guys they hate.

Margocheater followed the same trend. The plaster hardens toward the later rds and he makes a mini comeback. But PW did use the reach advantage and Jab. As a result, he kept the loaded gloves away and even won the 12th RD to seal the victory. If the gloves were loaded or not, he still beat Margocheater.

BHOP was hit and slapped around by Calzaghe. He is old and can be hit- even if they were pitty patt punches. You judge fighters as they are one dimensional. In SRL vs Hearns, the puncher became the boxer and the boxer became the puncher. PW is not going to fight Pavlik the way he fought martinez. Yes he has deficiencies, but he can work on those and get better. The fact is that Taylor beat Bhop twice and so did Slapzaghe. The mean invinvible Pavlik was more exposed than PW ever was. PW will give more angles and side to side movement against Pavlik. Pavlik has LESS handspeed than Martinez, so all that power will flush down the toilet against PW. I just trying to give the other side DonnA kin.

[GJC]

I apologise for bumping a thread which has probably run his course but I was reading Hugh McIlvaney today and he quotes Budd Schulberg's reasoning and sums up my feelings on this fight far more eloquantly than I ever could:

"Budd's reasoning was that people were so amazed to find Sugar Ray capable of much more than they imagined that they persuaded themselves he was doing far more than he actually was. Similarly, having expected extreme destructiveness from Marvin, they saw anything less as faliure and refused to give him credit for the quiet beating he administered."

For those who do not know McIlvanney, whilst I don't believe that many of our U.K. boxers can compete historically I would put McIlvanney up against any boxing writer.

[donkim]

Hugh McIlvaney's comments fall along the lines of every other cliche that has been used when to describe Leonard's tactics in this fight.


Apparently Hagler spent the whole night picking Leonard's combinations off with his gloves and arms.Those times where Leonard is bouncing Hagler's head side to side don't count apparently.


It's quite astonishing really the lengths Hagler fans will go to try and discredit the washed up,rusty welterweight's performance.


For such ineffective,pitty pat punches,Marvis sure didn't treat them as such.

[sonnyboyx2]

I apologise for bumping a thread which has probably run his course but I was reading Hugh McIlvaney today and he quotes Budd Schulberg's reasoning and sums up my feelings on this fight far more eloquantly than I ever could:

"Budd's reasoning was that people were so amazed to find Sugar Ray capable of much more than they imagined that they persuaded themselves he was doing far more than he actually was. Similarly, having expected extreme destructiveness from Marvin, they saw anything less as faliure and refused to give him credit for the quiet beating he administered."

For those who do not know McIlvanney, whilst I don't believe that many of our U.K. boxers can compete historically I would put McIlvanney up against any boxing writer.

read Colin Hart the UKs No1 boxing reporter for over 40yrs and his articles on the Leonard vs Hagler fight... Hart sat ringside and had the fight 9-3 Leonard

[BennyST]

Paul Williams isn't a good boxer at all.

Well, he is a champion in two divisions, or was. That means he is pretty good. I don't think Williams was exposed as such because anyone who had seen him fight knew he had those flaws in his game. They were exploited by good fighters who could do so, but they were never exposed because there was nothing to expose.

You could see all his flaws in all of his fights. You're right though. He doesn't tall, he fights too much in, he doesn't use his jab enough and doesn't snap it out enough either but none of that means he has been exposed because he has still been able to become a champion and is obviously very, very difficult to beat even with those flaws.

While you may not think so, he is a champion, which makes him one of the best fighters in the world.

In his only loss, a close twelve round decision, his flaws were exploited but in the rematch he learned and exploited his opponents so much that he avenged that only loss with a rather brutal first round KO. That's about as good as it gets against a guy that's beaten you and you need to show the world that it was a fluke. Not that is was a fluke as Quintana is a great fighter but he got badly beaten in the rematch.

[sonnyboyx2]

[QUOTE=JAB5239;7177377]

From the Washington post, March 31, 1991.

Sugar Ray Leonard said yesterday that he used ******* from 1983 to 1986 and also drank alcohol heavily during those three years following surgery for a detached retina that threatened to end his boxing career. An emotional Leonard attributed his failed marriage to his behavior, and said he stopped using drugs because he wanted to be a better father to his two sons.

It says here he only used ******* from 1983 to 1986. Nothing about being dependent or having some extreme habit. Care to refute?

Maybe this link will shine some light on his drug problem.

[GJC]

read Colin Hart the UKs No1 boxing reporter for over 40yrs and his articles on the Leonard vs Hagler fight... Hart sat ringside and had the fight 9-3 Leonard

Sonny you misunderstand me, I'm not using the quote to reinforce my opinion as we have done all that, I just thought i'd share it as it was beautifully written.
Think you'll find McIlvaney and Schulberg were ringside too, personally i'd always back Mac's judgement over Colin Hart's who I think opinion's are coloured by how much access he gets to a particular fighter as is the way generally with The Sun which I believe he still writes for.

[sonnyboyx2]

Sonny you misunderstand me, I'm not using the quote to reinforce my opinion as we have done all that, I just thought i'd share it as it was beautifully written.
Think you'll find McIlvaney and Schulberg were ringside too, personally i'd always back Mac's judgement over Colin Hart's who I think opinion's are coloured by how much access he gets to a particular fighter as is the way generally with The Sun which I believe he still writes for.

GJC.. thats fare enough, you prefer to listen to McIlvanney, i have a one hour documentary with McIlvanney interviewing Ray Leonard in the mid-90s it is quite awhile since i have watched it but i am quite positive they will be talking about the Hagler v Leonard fight at some stage during the interview.. i will try to view it again this week and get back to you on it...

[GJC]

GJC.. thats fare enough, you prefer to listen to McIlvanney, i have a one hour documentary with McIlvanney interviewing Ray Leonard in the mid-90s it is quite awhile since i have watched it but i am quite positive they will be talking about the Hagler v Leonard fight at some stage during the interview.. i will try to view it again this week and get back to you on it...

Yes I have seen it, I think it was the maestro series or something. McIlvanney was a huge fan of SRL but didn't think he beat Hagler. I would hold my opinion anyway but I'm pleased to have Mac for company . Colin Hart has been around for years but he has never been one I have warmed too. Don't like his style and find him a bit too, well, Sun