Turn of the century tournament of all time contenders. 1890- 1902

[Dr. Z]

Turn of the century of all time contenders 1885-1902


Rules. All fights are 15 rounds. In the case of a draw by voters historian Matt Donnellon decides the winner. Apologies to Peter Jackson fans, he is not in this tourney! The draw is done by me with the top 4 seeds will not fighting in until at least round three each as determined by Hawk Hogan. The seeds are: Salvin, Rulin, Root and Goddard. Since there is limited film, you may ask the board questions on ANY fighter.

Take each man at their best. Watch elbows, and low blows . No spiked shoes! Alcohol is banned and each man must be sober though I won't be checking the spectors. The fighter must follow the rules or Marquess of Queensberry as written by John Chambers. There are no DQ wins here!

The fighters are:

Frank Salvin, Gus Ruhiln, Jack Root and Joe Goddard. The four seeds. And Tom Sharkey, Kid McCoy, Peter Maher, Mick Dooley, Dan Creedon, Hank Griffin, Denver Ed Smtih , Pat Killlen, Jim Hall, George Godrfey, Joe MaCauliffe, and Joe Choysnki. Apologies to the men who did not make the cut. Up next the draw.

[Dr. Z]

Round one draw:


Frank Salvin vs Joe McAuliffe

Joe Choynski vs George Godfrey


Gus Ruhlin vs Ed Smith

Pat Killen vs Hank Griffin


Tom Sharkey vs Dan Creedon

Jack Root vs Kid McCoy


Jim Hall vs Peter Maher

Joe Goddard vs Mick Dooley



For the purpose of organization please keep all posts in this thread and allow me to announce the first match which is Frank Slavin vs. Joe MaCulffie. Please do not skip ahead. I won't be using polls so pick your winner here. You may start the debate and picks now. Slavin vs. McAuliffe. Anyone can join at any time.

[mattdonnellon]

Slavin-McAuliffe is pretty easy, they met at their peak on neutral territory, Slavin, KO 2.

[Dr. Z]

Slavin-McAuliffe is pretty easy, they met at their peak on neutral territory, Slavin, KO 2.

Yep, this one should be easy. Slavin KO 2. Slavin has victories over Dooley, Kilrain, and Lang. He was 34-2-5, with the two loses coming in bouts where he didn't stop his opponents in six and three rounds. These bouts are listed as losses. He was something in his prime. Avoided by John L. Sullivan. Oh, what could have been.

Slavin wins the Police Gazette championship belt. However, according to Australia's The Referee of Oct. 1, 1890: "The match has been referred to by some journalists, ignorant of sporting laws, as a championship one, but such was not the case. The men simply fought for a purse of ?1, 000 and a diamond belt given by a well known American journal run by a very cute man.

[historical boxing society]

Round one draw:


Frank Salvin vs Joe McAuliffe

Joe Choynski vs George Godfrey


Gus Ruhlin vs Ed Martin

Pat Killen vs Hank Griffin


Tom Sharkey vs Dan Creedon

Jack Root vs Kid McCoy


Jim Hall vs Peter Maher

Joe Goddard vs Mick Dooley



For the purpose of organization please keep all posts in this thread and allow me to announce the first match which is Frank Slavin vs. Joe MaCulffie. Please do not skip ahead. I won't be using polls so pick your winner here. You may start the debate and picks now. Slavin vs. McAuliffe. Anyone can join at any time.

I certainly like the ambition. Peter Jackson is better than some of these to me. My option's on some of these fighter's would be in minority i'm sure.
Most are on the bottom end of 1st rate fighter someone with about 100 championship rounds logged (against a top level opponent.)

Many of these are below that standard (100 rounds) the wild card pool of 2nd rate Fighters (lower championship rounds logged).
Only really a slim % of fighter's I feel would test far better than what their championship rounds might exhibit. Because of success they had with a high winning % against top tier fighters.

For instance George Godfrey has 91 championship rounds He's on bottom of 1st tier fighter to me and many are below him. He's a good cut off standard for me near the top of a 2nd tier or Bottom of tier 1. Godfrey does test fair well on simulation, better than his Championship rounds would indicate. As do some. Godfrey is about even with Corbett in simulation. Which is better than Maher/creedon/slavin/sullivan range.


I love Pat Killen but he is has about 23 championship rounds. I doubt he would beat Hank Griffin.

Unfortunately you have a pair of the very best fighter's against each other, that's why i hate fantasy tournament's but that's just me.

[Marchegiano]

McAuliffe, Heavyweight Champion of the Pacific Coast vs Frank Slavin, Heavyweight Champion of Australia. Not a bad match on paper.


Just for the sake of having a different opinion than what's prevailing I will disregard Slavin's second round win that actually happened and pretend like these guys never fought. To give sort of an "I think" rather than an I know.




From what I know of these fellas, Frank's a little more refined while Joe's your classic big guy (for the era) who hits hard. Frank has the better resume but Joe's taken some decent names himself.

I would guess the early rounds go to the bigger man while Frank figures out a way to get to a man with a bit of height, weight, and years on him. Mid rounds the tide turns as Joe slows and Frank has his man figured. There are no late rounds because a slowed and known Joe is just a sitting duck for Frank.


These guy did match up in reality at or near their best days, but, post Jackson Slavin might have had a harder time taking out Joe so quickly if you use a pre 1890's McAuliffe. Bit impossible for this, but it is fantasy and all I am saying is 1893 Frank vs 1887 Joe might have gone a little longer than two. Maybe even possibly closer to my fantasy fight.


If I knew more details about how these men fought I would have written round-by-round style or maybe even blow-by-blow but all I know are vague descriptions; X beat Y on this date, this guy said it was fun to watch. X was a brawler, Y was a skilled technician. All fair enough stuff but one might call both Tyson and Marciano swarmers who made themselves small and exploded on their opponents, which is all true, but to say Tyson fought like Marciano is pretty untrue and so I stayed away from details I don't know much if anything about.







I am a little confused what my role is meant to be.

The draw is done by me with the top 4 seeds will not fighting in until at least round three each as determined by Hawk Hogan.

I am too ****** to follow, maybe just too new to the sport for the lingo. I am happy to help in any way I can but I don't know what exactly I am determining.

[Dr. Z]

I'll leave round one fight one Slavin vs McAuliffe open until Friday for votes.

[markusmod]

Slavin-McAuliffe is pretty easy, they met at their peak on neutral territory, Slavin, KO 2.

This man called it down the line.

[Marchegiano]

I'll leave round one fight one Slavin vs McAuliffe open until Friday for votes.

It's Friday, so Godfrey-Joe?


I'm just trying to beat Matt to it




Joe by 15RND KO

[mattdonnellon]

A hard call this one, when they met, Joe was at his peak while Godfrey was several years past his, yet he gave Choynski fits...maybe a peak George edges this one..good match up.