A Couple of Jack Johnson questions

[Dr. Z]

Posters here call Jeannette, Langford and McVea liars when they collectively insisted Jack Johnson never gave them their title shots while he was HW champion. He had plenty of excuses to avoid them and ended up fighting a lesser fighter instead. Johnson was never serious about fighting any of them once they got some experience under their belt. Remember, he fought all three while they were green or just starting out. He also had a distinct size advantage. Once they improved and entered their prime he wanted nothing to do with them. His resume is a solid indication of the kind of fights he was looking for.

This is correct.

To quote Jeannette, " Once Jack became champion he forgot about his old friends and drew the color line against his own people "

As champion Johnson had numerous offers and could fight in many areas of the world. History shows he avoided them ever time. In addition to the best " white hopes " such as GB Smith, and possibly Luther McCarthy never got a re-match either.. Smith of course had a TKO win in an exhibition match when Johnson was a champion in 1909. Where was the re-match?

Meanwhile Johnson lost to Marvin Hart in a high stakes match with the winner billed for Jeffries. After Hart won, Jeffries said he'd do it if there was enough money and interest. There wasn't.

Instead boxing focused on the Ketchel match, and the Jeffries match. Ketchel managed to hurt and floor Johnson. According to the NY times, which some like to use, he says he was hurt and the NY Times at the match says Johnson was dazed. Jeffries had not fought in six years. Sure he looked good entering the ring, but so did Ali when he fought Holmes until the first bell rang. He was washed up.

Johnson has singed to fight top competition before, like with Langford in 1909. What happened? He pulled out. He always has excuses, and his fans, or at least some of them try to make excuses for him. History shows he was inconsistent. He was Ko'd by a light heavyweight in Choynksi, beaten by Griffin, beaten by Hart, drew with a long in the tooth 160 O'Brien in a match that primary sources indicate O'Brien was the better, TKO'd by Smith, and floored by another middle weight in Ketchel. If this happened to a modern heavyweight champion of the world, how would he be viewed today?

This is what happened, yet some of his fans have excuses for these performances too.

Fact remains he had trouble with the like of Battling Jim Johnson, and the first really heavyweight he fought in his prime and in shape ( Willard ) took the crown from him. Fans should watch the film. Willard is more effective than give credit for and wins some rounds. He owns the fight from a distance. Johnson has to get close to score and does, but his blows do not bother Willard much

[travestyny]

History shows he avoided them ever time.

Maybe we can have a civil conversation. If what you say is true, how do you explain this?

[GhostofDempsey]

This is correct.

To quote Jeannette, " Once Jack became champion he forgot about his old friends and drew the color line against his own people "

As champion Johnson had numerous offers and could fight in many areas of the world. History shows he avoided them ever time. In addition to the best " white hopes " such as GB Smith, and possibly Luther McCarthy never got a re-match either.. Smith of course had a TKO win in an exhibition match when Johnson was a champion in 1909. Where was the re-match?

Meanwhile Johnson lost to Marvin Hart in a high stakes match with the winner billed for Jeffries. After Hart won, Jeffries said he'd do it if there was enough money and interest. There wasn't.

Instead boxing focused on the Ketchel match, and the Jeffries match. Ketchel managed to hurt and floor Johnson. According to the NY times, which some like to use, he says he was hurt and the NY Times at the match says Johnson was dazed. Jeffries had not fought in six years. Sure he looked good entering the ring, but so did Ali when he fought Holmes until the first bell rang. He was washed up.

Johnson has singed to fight top competition before, like with Langford in 1909. What happened? He pulled out. He always has excuses, and his fans, or at least some of them try to make excuses for him. History shows he was inconsistent. He was Ko'd by a light heavyweight in Choynksi, beaten by Griffin, beaten by Hart, drew with a long in the tooth 160 O'Brien in a match that primary sources indicate O'Brien was the better, TKO'd by Smith, and floored by another middle weight in Ketchel. If this happened to a modern heavyweight champion of the world, how would he be viewed today?

This is what happened, yet some of his fans have excuses for these performances too.

Fact remains he had trouble with the like of Battling Jim Johnson, and the first really heavyweight he fought in his prime and in shape ( Willard ) took the crown from him. Fans should watch the film. Willard is more effective than give credit for and wins some rounds. He owns the fight from a distance. Johnson has to get close to score and does, but his blows do not bother Willard much

These Johnson fans will want to drag you through another Vietnam for endless pages while supporting their position with weak sources. On another thread I've quoted several historians, scholars, sports writers, etc., only to be countered with some obscure article the size of a matchbook as proof Johnson tried to make fights with any of them while champion. You'll notice those same obscure sources used over and over while anything you provide as proof will just be dismissed. It's an exercise in futility, they already have their minds made up and are dug into their position. Most of them never read a boxing book and will quickly dismiss them if you reference them.

Johnson feasted on smaller fighters and a long string of no-hopers. Jeannette and McVea, respectively, had less than 20 and 10 fights to their name when they fought him. Jeannette was finally hitting his stride and figuring out Johnson in their sixth and final meeting which ended in a draw. After that, Johnson wouldn't risk it against them.

[travestyny]

These Johnson fans will want to drag you through another Vietnam for endless pages while supporting their position with weak sources. On another thread I've quoted several historians, scholars, sports writers, etc., only to be countered with some obscure article the size of a matchbook as proof Johnson tried to make fights with any of them while champion. You'll notice those same obscure sources used over and over while anything you provide as proof will just be dismissed. It's an exercise in futility, they already have their minds made up and are dug into their position. Most of them never read a boxing book and will quickly dismiss them if you reference them.

Johnson feasted on smaller fighters and a long string of no-hopers. Jeannette and McVea, respectively, had less than 20 and 10 fights to their name when they fought him. Jeannette was finally hitting his stride and figuring out Johnson in their sixth and final meeting which ended in a draw. After that, Johnson wouldn't risk it against them.

This reeks of you begging Dr. Z to be as cowardly as you are


What's wrong? Don't think he can justify your bullshlt? Let's see if he responds at all. Meanwhile, like a good ghost, how about you just stay hiding from everyone here who has already made attempts to call you on your bs.


Ps. Funny how you to bring up "obscure sources" when you posted a supposed article about Harry Wills which I proved didn't even exist. Aint that right, GhostofForgery?

[JAB5239]

- -That U & Weensy share a bladder?

To hold U proof presumably.

Pipe down you feeble minded old rummy. The next time you post proof of anything will be the first time.

[Dr. Z]

These Johnson fans will want to drag you through another Vietnam for endless pages while supporting their position with weak sources. On another thread I've quoted several historians, scholars, sports writers, etc., only to be countered with some obscure article the size of a matchbook as proof Johnson tried to make fights with any of them while champion. You'll notice those same obscure sources used over and over while anything you provide as proof will just be dismissed. It's an exercise in futility, they already have their minds made up and are dug into their position. Most of them never read a boxing book and will quickly dismiss them if you reference them.

Johnson feasted on smaller fighters and a long string of no-hopers. Jeannette and McVea, respectively, had less than 20 and 10 fights to their name when they fought him. Jeannette was finally hitting his stride and figuring out Johnson in their sixth and final meeting which ended in a draw. After that, Johnson wouldn't risk it against them.

Agreed.

Jeannete had a listed 0-3 record for his first fight with Johnson and usually a .500 like record. He was green with no amateur experience. That's who Johnson beat and drew with, along with one DQ loss when he went low.

McVey was just a teenager for his fight with Johnson. At age 18 and 19, how good could he have been?

Yet when these men and Langford who was 20 years old, and probably under 150 pounds for his sole fight for Johnson matured and wanted a title match, Johnson skirted them and money offers. Some of his fan go crazy, not even aware of the above.

Anyone disagree with the above? Travestny, and we all square here? Look it up. I have just as many sources, its always an execuse why he didn't test himself as champion. While Dempsey get blasted for not fighting Wills and to a lesser extend Greb, Johnson drew the color line more often and vs. more people.

I'm okay with really informed fanboys. If we don't agree, I could learn something along the way. However that's a rare breed. Once you know enough it's up to you to reported it as you learned, not deny the obvious.

I prefer to let the facts, films, history and ring results rule.

[Zaroku]

except that ketchel weighed 30 lbs less than johnson and couldn't take a real heavys power

This ^^^^ also Jack was reputed to love white wimmin

Racism held him back.

[Zaroku]

Maybe we can have a civil conversation. If what you say is true, how do you explain this?

White people hated him for pounding white wimmin...

The couldn�t find a Tommy Morrison to beat a man!

Z man knows boxing

Maybe in super slow motion manny could KO him..

Who is the next great white hope??

I get banned regularly

[travestyny]

White people hated him for pounding white wimmin...

The couldn�t find a Tommy Morrison to beat a man!

Z man knows boxing

Maybe in super slow motion manny could KO him..

Who is the next great white hope??

I get banned regularly

Tyson Fury is doing pretty well. Who do you have: Him or Joshua. Should be a good one!

[Zaroku]

Tyson Fury is doing pretty well. Who do you have: Him or Joshua. Should be a good one!

Both seem to have mental issues.

It will definitely be a toss up .

I live toss ups!