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Fight parallel: Calzighe versus Lacy Cotto versus Martinez

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    Fight parallel: Calzighe versus Lacy Cotto versus Martinez

    Cotto and Calzighe have very different personalities but looked upon as a whole there are some interesting parallels between these two fights, here are some that intrigue me:

    1) The Cotto Martinez fight, much like the Calzighe Lacy fight was a very polarizing event. I was struck by how much people were either tuned into Martinez cleaning house, or Cotto winning handily. Same with the Lacy fight. People either thought Lacy was going to murder Joe or vice versa.

    2) Both Lacy and martinez were unorthedox athletic fighters who without the benefit of much experience were hyped on their punching and athletic ability. It seems like in both cases people suspended the part of the thinking process that considers normative abilities most fighters have: Martinez lack of competition, was given short shift, meanwhile Lacy's total reliance on his hook, his ponderous lack of foot speed was not considered.

    3) Both fights were a real beating....nuff said not even close. And the experts were as a whole clueless.


    What interests me about this comparison is not so much Cotto or Calzighe who were in a sense mere red herrings, rather it is Martinez and Lacy....for the record I drank the Lacy koolaid!

    Mrtinez basically, as Ray said, fought ****. NOBODY here or on any board thought much of junior Chavez! suddenly he is a big strong puncher when Martinez beat him? ha! I used to hype the kid before he stopped training and even I knew he was **** at this junction of his protected excuse for a career. Pavlik was damaged goods, Williams being the one exception. Martinez never really beat an oppopnent of Cotto's quality!! people should have understood this.

    Lacy also was coming up...miuch like Taylor, another strong limited guy, but the difference was whom both guys had faced. Calzighe was in fact a major step up for Left Hook, people should have known!

    It is rare that a boxing board is so unnecessarily polarized by a fight that should have been a gimme...even the casinos bought the hype! And no Martinez is not a hype job well maybe he is...but there was no way he had fought anyone on Cotto's level before that night.

    #2
    Originally posted by billeau2 View Post
    Cotto and Calzighe have very different personalities but looked upon as a whole there are some interesting parallels between these two fights, here are some that intrigue me:

    1) The Cotto Martinez fight, much like the Calzighe Lacy fight was a very polarizing event. I was struck by how much people were either tuned into Martinez cleaning house, or Cotto winning handily. Same with the Lacy fight. People either thought Lacy was going to murder Joe or vice versa.

    2) Both Lacy and martinez were unorthedox athletic fighters who without the benefit of much experience were hyped on their punching and athletic ability. It seems like in both cases people suspended the part of the thinking process that considers normative abilities most fighters have: Martinez lack of competition, was given short shift, meanwhile Lacy's total reliance on his hook, his ponderous lack of foot speed was not considered.

    3) Both fights were a real beating....nuff said not even close. And the experts were as a whole clueless.


    What interests me about this comparison is not so much Cotto or Calzighe who were in a sense mere red herrings, rather it is Martinez and Lacy....for the record I drank the Lacy koolaid!

    Mrtinez basically, as Ray said, fought ****. NOBODY here or on any board thought much of junior Chavez! suddenly he is a big strong puncher when Martinez beat him? ha! I used to hype the kid before he stopped training and even I knew he was **** at this junction of his protected excuse for a career. Pavlik was damaged goods, Williams being the one exception. Martinez never really beat an oppopnent of Cotto's quality!! people should have understood this.

    Lacy also was coming up...miuch like Taylor, another strong limited guy, but the difference was whom both guys had faced. Calzighe was in fact a major step up for Left Hook, people should have known!

    It is rare that a boxing board is so unnecessarily polarized by a fight that should have been a gimme...even the casinos bought the hype! And no Martinez is not a hype job well maybe he is...but there was no way he had fought anyone on Cotto's level before that night.
    Martinez was a far better fighter than Lacy, although it is questionable whether the version of Martinez that Cotto destroyed was better than the version of lacy that Calzaghe destroyed.

    The comparison between these two fights is good for showing how misleading all this 'resume' stuff if. How can anyone tell for sure how good either of these wins actually were? You can reasonably make a case that either victory was very good or mediocre depending on how you rate the versions of both Lacy and Martinez in the ring. Was Lacy truly not very good, something of a hype job or was he just a good fighter that was completely outclassed by a great one and that his post-Calzaghe career is as much a consequence of his diminished mental state from the defeat as it is a reflection of his 'true' quality? Was Martinez so badly affected by his knees that he wasn't fully fit, wasn't sufficiently sharp or indeed that his knees were preventing him from moving as quickly as he wanted or even preventing him from actually making the required movements? Or did Cotto just give him a concussion in the first round that he never fully recovered from and that that is why he didn't look good?

    Judging a career by counting how many wins are classified as 'great' 'good' or whatever is near impossible and just becomes a reflection of your own biases. If you love Cotto or Calzaghe you give the most favourable interpretation in each relevant fight, if not, you give the least favourable interpretation.

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      #3
      Originally posted by Humean View Post
      Martinez was a far better fighter than Lacy, although it is questionable whether the version of Martinez that Cotto destroyed was better than the version of lacy that Calzaghe destroyed.

      The comparison between these two fights is good for showing how misleading all this 'resume' stuff if. How can anyone tell for sure how good either of these wins actually were? You can reasonably make a case that either victory was very good or mediocre depending on how you rate the versions of both Lacy and Martinez in the ring. Was Lacy truly not very good, something of a hype job or was he just a good fighter that was completely outclassed by a great one and that his post-Calzaghe career is as much a consequence of his diminished mental state from the defeat as it is a reflection of his 'true' quality? Was Martinez so badly affected by his knees that he wasn't fully fit, wasn't sufficiently sharp or indeed that his knees were preventing him from moving as quickly as he wanted or even preventing him from actually making the required movements? Or did Cotto just give him a concussion in the first round that he never fully recovered from and that that is why he didn't look good?

      Judging a career by counting how many wins are classified as 'great' 'good' or whatever is near impossible and just becomes a reflection of your own biases. If you love Cotto or Calzaghe you give the most favourable interpretation in each relevant fight, if not, you give the least favourable interpretation.
      Is Martinez so much better than Lacy?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by billeau2 View Post
        Is Martinez so much better than Lacy?
        I think so, possibly not on Saturday night but I think Martinez was a very high quality middleweight at his best. Lacy was more a borderline world class 168 pounder with a lot of power. Martinez was probably a very high quality fighter a few years before he ever got a chance to prove it. Some fighters get the red carpet treatment from the outset, Ray Leonard and Mayweather being the obvious examples, whilst others like Martinez and Pacquiao have a far harder route to the top.

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          #5
          Serg was def a better fighter than lacy, but not sure he was much better than him when he fought cotto.. Serg was clearly past prime

          Comment


            #6
            "Unorthodox" and "Athletic" are two of the last words I'd chose to describe Jeff Lacy.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by billeau2 View Post
              Is Martinez so much better than Lacy?
              This can't be a serious question.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by billeau2 View Post
                Is Martinez so much better than Lacy?
                Yes, and it's not even close. But Lacy didn't go into that fight as damaged goods, so it's a difficult comparison. If I'm going by my immediate post fight impressions, then I thought Calzaghe's win was better.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by IronDanHamza View Post
                  "Unorthodox" and "Athletic" are two of the last words I'd chose to describe Jeff Lacy.
                  Well Lacy was perceived as having a body builder's physique which is a type of athletic quality....However he was ponderous. He was unorthodox in his reliance on the hook...Meaning that technically when a fighter is described as "orthodox" it implies a fighter who sets up off the jab, is in a traditional stance and has an average assortment of punches.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by IronDanHamza View Post
                    This can't be a serious question.
                    I was enaging in some hyperbole however the point made stands: Martinez has not fought competition on the level of his hype score, certainly not on the level that Cotto has.

                    This extends to the Calzigne fight. Joe was a lot more experienced, had fought better comp....I know even with his lack of comp, but still!

                    At the time Lacy was regarded as a strong opponent and just like with Martinez his lack of comp was glossed over.

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